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We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

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Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#191

Post by natdempk »

spodek wrote: post #174
acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

Glad to see reducing consumption at the top. People's scarcity mindset makes them think burning less fossil fuels and consuming less stuff will lower their quality of life. On the contrary, most Americans could reduce their consumption by 80% off pure life improvements . People convolve reducing consumption with returning to the stone age, which is a false dichotomy. It's more like exiting a mindset that stuff means…

> On the contrary, most Americans could reduce their consumption by 80% off pure life improvements.

This sounds great, how do I do it?

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#192

Post by dahfizz »

spodek wrote: post #174
acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

Glad to see reducing consumption at the top. People's scarcity mindset makes them think burning less fossil fuels and consuming less stuff will lower their quality of life. On the contrary, most Americans could reduce their consumption by 80% off pure life improvements . People convolve reducing consumption with returning to the stone age, which is a false dichotomy. It's more like exiting a mindset that stuff means…

How do you define consumption, and how did you come up with the 90% figure? I commend your efforts but that's... A little hard to believe.

You mean to say you used to "consume" 10x what you do now? I'm skeptical that's even possible for someone living in the first world. Just food, clothing, and housing is too much consumption to make that figure reasonable.

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#193

Post by agumonkey »

acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

and we need to stop moving

way too much car use

oh and absurd heating too, I saw black water buckets in the caribeans. Every high sun rate place should use that and never have an electric heated tank ever again

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#194

Post by RobinL »

spodek wrote: post #174
acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

Glad to see reducing consumption at the top. People's scarcity mindset makes them think burning less fossil fuels and consuming less stuff will lower their quality of life. On the contrary, most Americans could reduce their consumption by 80% off pure life improvements . People convolve reducing consumption with returning to the stone age, which is a false dichotomy. It's more like exiting a mindset that stuff means…

Agreed. I spent some time making a calculator [0] to help me understand what matters when it comes to energy consumption. This made it very clear that by far the best way most consumers can make a difference is just to stop buying stuff. In the west we get away with 'low'(er) emissions because we import a huge amount of CO2 though imported goods - maps of total energy consumption are quite interesting here [1]

Stopping buying stuff is hard for most people, and I think the key is to stop _wanting_ stuff. Sadly I think consumption-driven society is incredibly deeply ingrained. I mean, most people seem to devote large proportions of their life pursuing unnecessary luxury goods. This is the mindset that needs to change - and particularly be reversed as we bring up the next generation. A fundamental shift is needed in what people are 'pursuing'.

[0] https://robinlinacre.com/energy-usage [1] https://observablehq.com/@robinl/energy-usage-and-goods-impo...

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#195

Post by jsomau »

acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

I've been building a browser extension called Curb Your Consumerism that detects when you're on a checkout page for a website and redirects you to a screen that shows you how long you had to work to earn the purchase you're about to make. The idea is to get people to more consciously consume and reduce their consumption.

It still needs work, and I'm hoping to find a way to approximate the CO2 impact of their purchases.

Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/curb-your-consumer...

Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/curb-your-con...

More info: https://www.curbyourconsumerism.app/#faq

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#196

Post by Nasrudith »

acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

While endurance helps it isn't so straightforward as /just/ increasing endurance. Efficency gains can more than pay for the cost of additional manufacturing for one. It is something which calls for doing math on a case by case basis essentially.

Going from Incandescents to LEDs and similiar caused the energy usage to go down in spite of increased always on electronic device usage. Replacing a hummer with a Prius or Yaris wins out quickly.

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#197

Post by hawski »

Hermel wrote: post #102

I’m paying Climeworks 1000$ to remove a ton of CO2 every month. Not very cost effective, but a start.

How much CO2, on scale, let's say, 10 years, planting 1000 trees a month would remove? I have https://teamtrees.org/ in mind, they claim to plant one tree for each dollar.

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#198

Post by snarf21 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #164

We need to do lots of things. But we are not going to. Discussing the tech ignores that this is fundamentally a political and economic problem...

I agree. We need to move to more renewables like solar but that is just for the future, burning less CO2 in 30 years from now. The warming will continue to happen, technology can't stop it. The population will grow to 9B but the global growth rate keeps dropping. This planet can't support that many people, no matter how clean we use energy. Look at all the water resources and food resources we are burning and the biodiversity we are killing so people can eat and make a living. It feels like 4B is about as much as we can sustain. The population will continue to drop and the places where the birth rate is high, we need education and empowerment of women to drive the birth rate down to more western rates. This is where we should be spending money, not a machine to pull CO2 out of the air. Nature already knows how to do that quite efficiently but it will take time. We'll have a few hundred years of consequences but it will eventually fix itself.

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#199

Post by m12k »

BurningFrog wrote: post #189
acd wrote: post #120

We need to stop consuming like there is no tomorrow. This is driven by advertisement convincing consumers they should buy products they may not need. Secondly we need to make products which lasts a life time. I see root cause that we need to remodel the economy from market economy consumerism to a circular sustainable economy. Most current economists is saying expand expand expand, but that increases co2 levels due t…

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. The atmospheric CO₂ rates come from burning too much fossil fuel. Not from people wanting things. If you consume and produce things in a way that doesn't release net CO₂, that is perfectly fine from a climate perspective, even if the products are meaningless artefacts of a materialistic life that will never make you happy. I understand the impulse toward a simpler, less materialistic…

> We don't have that lever.

As far as I understand we have a red button that will induce a nuclear winter

Re: We need to take CO2 out of the sky – an overview of climate tech

#200

Post by lotsofpulp »

OJFord wrote: post #169
lotsofpulp wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shifted to buying the cheapest products available.

No, far cheaper products became available.

Obviously, if people are buying them. The point is if consumers prefer cheaper, lower quality products, then how is a business offering more expensive, higher quality products supposed to survive?
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