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In Britain, even jails have a class system

theatlantic.com

161–170 of 183 posts

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inconvenient things perhaps, but not false things... Unfortunately.

Doubling down on your ignorance isn't helping.

Perhaps you could enlighten me instead of being arrogant?

The state of prisons is avoidable and due to society not caring enough. Is that a false and ignorant claim? Why? I think you should explain because I think that may claim is patently observable and a matter of fact.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#162

> Atkins: People of the prisoner class have really, really bought into the capitalist dream. But they were too unlucky, ill-educated, unfortunate, or born in the wrong place to have all the things that society has told them they should have. They were taught from a very early age: You can have it all, not just the wealth but the stuff. My favorite part. They don’t realize that capitalism itself is regressing to a cla…

> ... capitalism itself is regressing to a class-based system.

Capitalism has always been a class-based system. There's the people who work for wages, and the people who live off rents from their capital.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#163
post #105
post #7

I can strongly recommend "A Bit of a Stretch" - I read it after reading "The Secret Barrister: Stories of the Law and How It's Broken" which is pretty terrifying.

An honest look at criminal justice is actually terrifying, even moreso because we don't even have a lead on alternatives.

There are alternatives like transformative justice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_justice https://savethekidsgroup.org/defining-transformative-justice...

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I also think most people don't understand what prison populations look like. Federal prisons are dominated by non-violent crimes; this report states fewer than 5% of federal inmates' most serious crimes were violent offenses. (1) The proportions are different in state prisons, but there non-violent offenders still make up about half of the population. People are also completely misinformed about recidivism. Not o…

> We kill people because it's "what they deserve," as if the state has any right to decide whether its own citizens live or die. Sounds about right. True justice is to undo the damage caused by the perpetrator. Unfortunately, it's impossible to do that. There's no way to restore a murdered person back to life or restore people's ability to feel safe in their own homes after it's been violated. Some damage always rema…

You can even go further than undoing the damage by looking at transformative justice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_justice https://savethekidsgroup.org/defining-transformative-justice...

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#165
post #104

>> A December 2017 parliamentary report said up to 90 percent of prisoners have mental-health problems, and 12 percent turn to self-harm or attempt suicide multiple times. How could it be otherwise? Even ignoring the likely correlation between psychological problems and incarceration... Prison is a terrible environment by its nature and by design. Would we be surprised if concentration camp or gulag inhabitants had m…

How many prisoners entered with mental health problems? Probably the majority.

And no one will leave without one.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I also think most people don't understand what prison populations look like. Federal prisons are dominated by non-violent crimes; this report states fewer than 5% of federal inmates' most serious crimes were violent offenses. (1) The proportions are different in state prisons, but there non-violent offenders still make up about half of the population. People are also completely misinformed about recidivism. Not o…

> We kill people because it's "what they deserve," as if the state has any right to decide whether its own citizens live or die. Sounds about right. True justice is to undo the damage caused by the perpetrator. Unfortunately, it's impossible to do that. There's no way to restore a murdered person back to life or restore people's ability to feel safe in their own homes after it's been violated. Some damage always rema…

> can't move on

It's not a lack of ability, it's a lack of desire. The lack of desire is directly attributable to a toxic culture.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#167
post #83

The _visibility_ of the class system is one thing that surprised me about the UK. It seems to be a very visibly stratified society. Unlike in the US where everyone likes to pretend they are a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and assumes there's ample social mobility (which there isn't as much as they think), in the UK most folks seem to know exactly where they belong, and they seem to be more content with their po…

"Class" in the US is more explicitly defined by race then elsewhere, because the US was founded as a white supremacist slaveowning society.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#168

> People of the prisoner class have really, really bought into the capitalist dream. But they were too unlucky, ill-educated, unfortunate, or born in the wrong place to have all the things that society has told them they should have. They were taught from a very early age: You can have it all, not just the wealth but the stuff. Trainers [sneakers] are a big deal, watches are a big deal, cars are a big deal. This almo…

> are within the grasp of anyone above the poverty line

...often supplied with predatory loans.

PS4 Pro, 1TB, Fortnite edition: £799 ($1033 USD) over 108 weeks. https://www.perfecthome.co.uk/detail/index/sArticle/3170

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#169
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally give you a 50% discount on that prison time by default and the rest you are released on probation, miss appointment or any crime and straight in front of a judge and can easily end up serving the rest of the sentence. Sadly this whole automated 50% discount upon your sentence has made many people despair at the whole system and often see headlines of some heinous crime and how they are out after a few…

I'm curious: what do you think about the police in the UK going after people that post mean tweets on Twitter? Does it erode your faith in the police even further?

It doesn't happen much. Almost all those things you hear about are either campaigns of harassment or incitement to violence.

Sometimes, rarely, it's the police having a discussion to let someone know what the law is in order to prevent that person committing an offence. And even this discussion with potential offenders is probably going to end after the police mishandling of the Henry Miller case: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/miller-v...

How do you feel about US police arresting six year old children for misbehaviour in class? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-51638871/six-y...

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#170
post #19

> In June 2016 [...] He was sentenced to five years in prison and sent to Wandsworth > He was released in December 2018. Theses 5 years were pretty fast

Early release isn't available for some violent or sexual offenders.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/about-sentencing/senten...

> A jail sentence means more than just time in prison. If an offender is sent to prison, the judge will decide how long he should spend in custody, but time in prison is just one part of the sentence. Offenders always complete their full sentence but usually half the time is spent in prison and the rest is spent on licence. While on licence, an offender can be sent back to prison if they break its terms.

> The system of serving half a sentence in prison and half on licence was introduced by Parliament, and is not something that judges or magistrates have any control over.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/about-sentencing/types-...

> Offenders sentenced to two years or more will serve half their sentence in prison and serve the rest of the sentence in the community on licence. While on licence an offender will be subject to supervision and the licence will include conditions. If an offender breaches their conditions, they may be recalled to prison.

The supervision will continue for longer than the sentence.

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