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Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

geohot.com

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Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#61

Post by eli »

steipete wrote: post #52
rorrr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I support geohot and dislike DMCA, I'm pretty sure releasing code that circumvents security (and especially the one that causes financial loss) is still illegal. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#a http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#a2 http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#b There's one exception - circumvention is allowed only for security testing purposes, bu…

so how is this different to jailbreaking an iPhone?

Well, first, I'm not sure it is legal to jailbreak an iPhone, but to answer your question it's different because the US Copyright office said so.

There's a specific exemption to the anticircumvention provision of the DMCA for "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset."

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#62

Post by eli »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #2

I'm donating - what Sony is doing is illegal. I understand that his work has lead to the option of piracy, and I fully support Sony's decision to ban consoles that have been modified from their online network - however the legal battle against geohot and team fail overflow is wrong. Bottom line; this is a worthy fight to wager and my money will help support it.

I'm curious: have you read the DMCA? Why do you think it doesn't apply to geohot?

Just because you don't like what Sony is doing doesn't make it illegal, and just because you support geohot doesn't mean the law is on his side. IANAL, but I don't see how he can win.

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#63

Post by radq »

eli wrote: post #61
steipete wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so how is this different to jailbreaking an iPhone?

Well, first, I'm not sure it is legal to jailbreak an iPhone, but to answer your question it's different because the US Copyright office said so. There's a specific exemption to the anticircumvention provision of the DMCA for "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applica…

It is legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the USA. Jailbreaking was added to a list of exemptions to the DMCA last year.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jail...

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#64

Post by drstrangevibes »

eli wrote: post #61
steipete wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so how is this different to jailbreaking an iPhone?

Well, first, I'm not sure it is legal to jailbreak an iPhone, but to answer your question it's different because the US Copyright office said so. There's a specific exemption to the anticircumvention provision of the DMCA for "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applica…

it is legal to jailbreak an iphone http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jail...

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#65

Post by daniel_reetz »

Donated.

Look at it this way. Sony has repeatedly fucked me as a consumer. Rootkits, copy protection schemes, fucking memory stick. I put thousands of dollars into Minidisc before I gave up.

Now, geohot. Well, this guy gives me free code and insight into the Kinect sensor. Helps a bunch of people openly enjoy the capabilities of the hardware they own. This isn't even about trust- this is about a big contributor being harassed by bullies. I know what side I'm backing. Cash to EFF, cash to geohot.

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#67

Post by Retric »

eli wrote: post #62
elliottcarlson wrote: post #2

I'm donating - what Sony is doing is illegal. I understand that his work has lead to the option of piracy, and I fully support Sony's decision to ban consoles that have been modified from their online network - however the legal battle against geohot and team fail overflow is wrong. Bottom line; this is a worthy fight to wager and my money will help support it.

I'm curious: have you read the DMCA? Why do you think it doesn't apply to geohot? Just because you don't like what Sony is doing doesn't make it illegal, and just because you support geohot doesn't mean the law is on his side. IANAL, but I don't see how he can win.

Cases like this don't come down to a simple interpretation of an existing law, often focusing more on the intent than the wording. Sony actually defended a similar case, Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.,.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Univer....

Edit: HN sees to dislike periods at the end of URL's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Univer...

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#69

Post by eli »

Retric wrote: post #67
eli wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious: have you read the DMCA? Why do you think it doesn't apply to geohot? Just because you don't like what Sony is doing doesn't make it illegal, and just because you support geohot doesn't mean the law is on his side. IANAL, but I don't see how he can win.

Cases like this don't come down to a simple interpretation of an existing law, often focusing more on the intent than the wording. Sony actually defended a similar case, Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Univer... . Edit: HN sees to dislike periods at the end of URL's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Univer...

Uh, well there's a pretty huge difference between copyright cases in 1984 and copyright cases today: the DMCA. The DMCA is the law and (with few exceptions) it makes it criminal to circumvent DRM. Intent doesn't matter and whether or not you actually infringe copyright doesn't matter.

I think it's a bad law, but it is a law and geohot broke it. IANAL, but I would imagine the only defense would be to try to get the law itself overturned. I don't see how else he can get out from under it.

If you want to cite cases, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealNetworks,_Inc._v._DVD_Copy_...

Re: Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony.

#70

Post by eli »

radq wrote: post #63
eli wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first, I'm not sure it is legal to jailbreak an iPhone, but to answer your question it's different because the US Copyright office said so. There's a specific exemption to the anticircumvention provision of the DMCA for "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applica…

It is legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the USA. Jailbreaking was added to a list of exemptions to the DMCA last year. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jail...

Uh, yeah, I quoted that exemption. But it is NOT an absolute right. If you jailbreak an iPhone for the purpose of e.g. using pirated apps (which I imagine many people are) then you are committing a crime even if you haven't pirated anything yet.
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