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In Britain, even jails have a class system

theatlantic.com

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Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#81

Post by rwmurrayVT »

function_seven wrote: post #69
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

Your first comment said: > The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. But what you're describing here seems just as likely to be a resourcing and procedure issue. For example, do you think it's fair that all visitors must undergo a full cavity search before being allowed to see an inmate? Even attorneys? If not, then should the inmate go through that procedure after every visit? Will we all be happy with the…

Smuggling in and out of the visitation room is only possible at lower security facilities. They constantly monitor via video and after the fact on recorded video.

Once they busted the main supplier at Morgantown people got desperate and started trying the visitor's room. One poor guy in a wheelchair got busted with 2 cell phones, 4 packs of cigarettes, and pills coming out of visitation. Absolutely stupid. You could definitely get in suboxone or a couple of cigarettes. Anything bigger than that it wasn't going to work. When you go back in they pat you down, but randomly you can get a significantly more thorough search.

The only place where the guards are an issue are mediums. A $6 pack of cigarettes becomes $20 at a minimum, $50 at a low, and $100+ at a medium. At low and above you'll often find they're selling little matchstick sized cigarettes that are rolled up from the person responsible for cleaning up after guards. It's usually "used" chewing tobacco.

At the medium level you don't get to talk to visitors face to face normally. That makes even visitation smuggling impossible. It can only filter in from guards or from the satellite minimum security camp.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#82

Post by rwmurrayVT »

gavinray wrote: post #80
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

This is not true, I had a troubled youth and did a short stint in my late teens for trespassing. There are a lot of ways you can get drugs in to prison without the aid of guards. - Repeat offenders used to getting arrested (particularly drug dealers) would carry their drugs in what is termed a cock sock , which is as you may guess, a sock worn around the male bits to hold things. They would tie pre-weighed bags of dr…

We used the brillo pads from the kitchen and a battery. I was very inept at doing it so I just lit it from someone's already lit cigarette. The most we ever did with outlets was making little stingers.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#83

Post by m0zg »

The _visibility_ of the class system is one thing that surprised me about the UK. It seems to be a very visibly stratified society. Unlike in the US where everyone likes to pretend they are a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and assumes there's ample social mobility (which there isn't as much as they think), in the UK most folks seem to know exactly where they belong, and they seem to be more content with their position in the class hierarchy. Or at least that's the perception from spending a month in London and vicinity. I'm sure someone will argue vehemently against it.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#84

Post by gavinray »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #82
gavinray wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, I had a troubled youth and did a short stint in my late teens for trespassing. There are a lot of ways you can get drugs in to prison without the aid of guards. - Repeat offenders used to getting arrested (particularly drug dealers) would carry their drugs in what is termed a cock sock , which is as you may guess, a sock worn around the male bits to hold things. They would tie pre-weighed bags of dr…

We used the brillo pads from the kitchen and a battery. I was very inept at doing it so I just lit it from someone's already lit cigarette. The most we ever did with outlets was making little stingers.

One stupid choice as a reckless 18 year old was enough of an experience for me to decide I was never going back there again.

Unfortunately that trespassing was the lowest-class felony so it has made it one hell of a time for me getting a job later in life, with HR policy in most places and the fact it never leaves your record.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#85

Post by golover721 »

pysxul wrote: post #19

> In June 2016 [...] He was sentenced to five years in prison and sent to Wandsworth > He was released in December 2018. Theses 5 years were pretty fast

Its pretty normal in a lot of places in the US as well to only actually serve 40-60% of a sentence.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#86

Post by coldtea »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #42
dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

This misses the elephant in the room: How can they "find" anything in prison? The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. That has to be the root cause. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-pris...

People have been able to find stuff in prison since the time of Julius Ceasar, in every country and every time.

There's no avoiding that...

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#87

Post by ozim »

Traster wrote: post #66
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

Yeah and hacking is impossible unless software developers turn a blind eye or procedures are sufficiently lax.

Good one. People just don't see how life in general is complicated. How much more details are hiding in someones else job. They don't see how their senses are limited.

Prison guard - standing all day with rifle, anyone can do that. Nurse - giving pills and injections, what is so hard about it? Software dev - sitting behind computer all day lazy slob, he could get some real job :)

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#88

Post by rodgerd »

gavinray wrote: post #80
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

This is not true, I had a troubled youth and did a short stint in my late teens for trespassing. There are a lot of ways you can get drugs in to prison without the aid of guards. - Repeat offenders used to getting arrested (particularly drug dealers) would carry their drugs in what is termed a cock sock , which is as you may guess, a sock worn around the male bits to hold things. They would tie pre-weighed bags of dr…

My father in law has a great story from when he was young: his brother worked out that the easiest way for a then-14-year-old to get tobacco was to head to the local prison. Prisoners then got a tobacco ration, but had no access to sweets. So he would chuck bags of lollies over the wall, and the prisoners would throw bags of tobacco back.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#89

Post by 6510 »

Traster wrote: post #66
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

Yeah and hacking is impossible unless software developers turn a blind eye or procedures are sufficiently lax.

ha-ha,

If you give people enough time of course they will do that what you couldn't imagine possible in 20 seconds.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#90

Post by bananamerica »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #45
mytailorisrich wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the elephant in the room: How can they "find" anything in prison? The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. That has to be the root cause. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-pris...

It is indeed the root cause. But it’s not easy to tackle. If you consider the possible remedies, which seem viable?

Spending more money would probably help.

At least in the US, most people are not fond of the idea of spending more money with the prison system.

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