Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you articulate your concern? Are you specifically objecting to the 'tivoisation' clause of the GPLv3, or has your opinion on the GPL changed, or something else? The spirit that you seem to describe is, I believe, embodied by the LGPLv2 (minus the clause that allows you to convert LGPL -> GPL.)
I've been warned on many occasions that the LGPL is not trusted to cover dynamic languages like Python very well since its verbiage is specific to C linkers and compilers.
Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
111–120 of 122 posts
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've taken that quote out of context, as the next sentence dispels your fear of having to help your mother debug her cell phone. But, to answer that particular argument: It can't help the previous generation in any notable way. That ship has sailed. But, the next generation can be more capable than the current one, assuming we pass on the tools they need and a culture of learning and sharing discoveries. So, don't…
> You've taken that quote out of context, as the next sentence dispels your fear of having to help your mother debug her cell phone. If the next sentence dispels that fear, then the quoted sentence is wrong, and should have been left out altogether. And so it is. This is perhaps the biggest fail of the Free Software movement: co-opting a word, phrase or sentence to fill people with idealistic notions that do not repr…
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on how you define "open". For Stallman, one of the main goals of free software is the ability to get into your software and be able to fix bugs and port it to other platforms -- it all started with RMS getting stuck with a proprietary printer driver. All that BSD code that's been taken, extended, modified and used in proprietary products is no longer open. You can't get into OS X and fix bugs or port it to…
You are correct: the original code (and ongoing work based on it) is still open, and Apple, et al, versions are not. This is fine. First and most importantly, because the desire to share code with BSD comes with no strings attached. It's just the desire to share. You don't have to have the same beliefs and priorities as I do in order to use my code. I believe in freedom enough to give you all the freedoms to do as yo…
> give you all the freedoms to do as you like with my code
The industry has a bad habit of leaving end users at our mercy. I feel they deserve a place in that sentence, and that's why my donated work only goes to GPL projects.
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then, you're misunderstanding the word "immoral". To quote Steven Pinker from "The blank slate" (p.269): "People feel that that moral rules are universal. Injunctions against murder and rape, for example, are not matters of taste or fashion but have a trancendent and universal warrent. People feel that other who commit immoral acts ought to be punished: not only is it right to inflict harm on people who have commmite…
That's ridiculous. You can't just change the meaning of words to suit your opinion! From the dictionary (I would specifically point you to #3, in case you're feeling too lazy to read all of them): mor·al [mawr-uhl, mor-] –adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. 2. expressing or conveying truths or…
But Stallman is clear enought during interviews (emphasis by me):
* “The free software movement aims for a social change: to make all software free..." - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html
* “Non-free software tramples your freedom. […] It's unethical and it should not exist.” -- http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2004/07012004/july-aug04in...
* Interviewer "If there was a button that you could push and force all companies to free their software, would you press it?" Stallman: […] But yes, I think all published software should be free software." - http://www.gnu.org/events/rms-nyu-2001-transcript.txt
* Interviewer: "Would you accept a federal law in the United States to enforce the distribution of source code with every type of software?" Stallman: "I am not calling for such a law as of now, but I think that would be a valid consumer protection measure[…]" - http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_int...
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Open Source is about the developers. Free Software is about the end users (or, it's supposed to be)." In an ideal world, the user and the developer are one in the same. I don't mean everyone who uses a piece of software should have to know the code intimately; merely that they should have the freedom to see it, modify it and learn from it, should the need or desire arise. The power of the Free Software movement is t…
I respect FSF and RMS very much, and in fact I think if it weren't for them, Unix would've died, and Linux wouldn't really take off, maybe even BSD wouldn't have existed, and Mac wouldn't exist in the form we know it today (that is, as a Unix based OS). Having said that, RMS's ideology is not inherently good per se; it's somewhat radical, but without the existence of radicalism, we would've ended up in a world of pro…
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And I prefer my software to remain open no matter who works on it or distributes it. So, I use GPL. BSD license accomplishes that just fine. BSD licensed code has been taken, extended, modified and used in proprietary products for decades, and yet the original contribution remains open. I think that what you object to is that someone can take your code and make money using it in a closed source project, perhaps mod…
>> And I prefer my software to remain open no matter who works on it or distributes it. So, I use GPL. > BSD license accomplishes that just fine. BSD licensed code has been taken, extended, modified and used in proprietary products for decades, and yet the original contribution remains open. But the modifications might not do, which is what GPL proponents care about. To me, the GPL is like saying "I'll share with you…
Yes, that's correct. It's not about better or worse at all. It's about a license that fits what you want, as a developer.
Sometimes it varies by project! For instance, a developer who normally uses GPL may choose BSD for a reference implementation of a client program using their API, specifically because commercial products could incorporate the code.
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#117I tend to use GPL for fairly pragmatic reasons. If I've written some software - typically voluntarily and without payment - and put it out there for others to use then I would rather that the code remain in the public domain where improvements can be made which benefit everyone, including the original author.
Just curious - how many actual improvements were made to your GPL'd software and how many of these in your opinion would have not been made public if the license was different (say, BSD)?
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
This argument doesn't work. Promoting "freedom," with respect to software or anything else, is always about promoting some specific freedoms at the expense of others. Copyleft licenses make a different set of tradeoffs than BSD-style licenses, it's true. But that doesn't mean that BSD-style licenses are "objectively" more free. They simply promote certain freedoms of programmers who are one step downstream from the s…
I'm afraid the argument does work. The GPL adds many more restrictions to the recipient of code than does BSD. It's really that simple. The only restriction BSD places on the recipient is to retain the copyright and license notice. But I don't think I'm going to get this point across. Not while "freedom" is taken to mean something other than the dictionary definition.
The free software movement is about granting users freedom in this narrow sense, but it is also about building a society in which software freedom is valued and protected in a much broader sense. Software freedom is a social, moral and cultural goal in the same way that freedom of the press, freedom of association, or freedom from malicious prosecution are. These are "freedoms" in a broader sense than the dictionary definition, perhaps, but that doesn't mean that "freedom" is the wrong word to use.
Indeed, the broad sense of "freedom" is the one that is of primary importance, because without the social institutions that implement the broad sense of "freedom," the narrow sense of individual freedom in a particular setting becomes irrelevant or, worse, non-existent. Unless we have freedom of the press in the broad sense, for example, the fact that any particular publisher is free to say what it wants remains hollow. (One could hardly say, for example, that a country which has a single publisher that's free to publish as it pleases -- the state-run media outlet -- has a "free press.") A whole series of institutions are required to have a free press: a legal system that protects free printed speech, a system of publishers that actually produce that printed speech, an economic system that supports those publishers, and so on. In the same way, a whole series of institutions are required for software freedom: a system that protects certain freedoms of use for all users, as well as a system for developing free software, and for supporting that development in one way or another. It is these institutions that the GPL helps create; and in their absence, the possibility of BSD-licensed code, whether or not it would be "more free" in a particular case, is irrelevant to the social goal of software freedom for everyone.
Unfortunately, it is precisely the broad sense of "freedom" as a network of social institutions that define, protect and promote individual freedoms (in the narrow sense) that introduces the trade-offs and hard choices, the balancing act between certain particular freedoms of certain individuals and other freedoms of other individuals. But again, this hardly means that freedoms in the broad sense are not properly so called. And unless we make those hard choices, the narrow, individual freedoms that arise from them will not exist in a meaningful way.
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#119Or, why Free Software misses the point of Open Source :) Open Source is about the developers. Free Software is about the end users (or, it's supposed to be). In reality, Free Software ends up being useful only for programmers, hackers, technical people, and well, institutions which require programmers, hackers and technical people to run and grow their infrastructure (such as Universities and Governments). Free Softw…
"Open Source is about the developers. Free Software is about the end users (or, it's supposed to be)." In an ideal world, the user and the developer are one in the same. I don't mean everyone who uses a piece of software should have to know the code intimately; merely that they should have the freedom to see it, modify it and learn from it, should the need or desire arise. The power of the Free Software movement is t…
Hopefully, in your ideal world, this doesn't take away the freedoms of the developers that don't want to release their code.
"You're mostly too young to remember the world in which code was closed, by default, and you had to learn without the benefit of an infinite variety of examples to peruse"
This would have happened even without the GNU license. Anything that can be digital is being shared on the Internet, regardless of the license.
"and so that the gap between the technology haves and have nots does not grow further and faster."
This doesn't really make any sense. Most people will never look at the source code...so the absence of a license that gives you the right to tinker with the inner workings of an application won't really have an effect on the "technology haves and have nots". We should be more concerned with people that can't eat.
"Note that I'm not discussing licenses here, but the general culture of software. If we have a culture of sharing, which RMS and the FSF has been instrumental in creating (and the GPL was merely a part of that), we have a culture in which young programmers can learn from the experienced, and a culture in which barriers to entry are not as economic in nature."
Which is funny because this right here is devaluing programmers' salaries every day. Because there are so many free apps out there, companies can hire less experienced developers for less pay (IE: mechanics instead of engineers). It's one of those things that nobody will notice until it's too late. I suspect at this point, we will start to see programmer unions to keep wages at an inflated level. So, when your company decides to replace you with someone cheaper or goes over to India or the Philippines, don't complain.
I also don't think the word "free" should be used to describe GNU software. It implies free, as in price. It also implies that you can do what you want with it. If a corporation decides to change the code around, redistribute, and close-source it, they will get sued. This doesn't sound very free to me.
Even if they closed-sourced the application, the original source code is still free. You just don't get the changes (which were never yours in the first place).
Re: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software
#120Or, why Free Software misses the point of Open Source :) Open Source is about the developers. Free Software is about the end users (or, it's supposed to be). In reality, Free Software ends up being useful only for programmers, hackers, technical people, and well, institutions which require programmers, hackers and technical people to run and grow their infrastructure (such as Universities and Governments). Free Softw…
"In reality, Free Software ends up being useful only for programmers, hackers, technical people," That is like saying that freedom of speech is only useful for journalists. You don't have to exercise a freedom to benefit from it. You benefit from others exercising it too. Whether a journalist exposes government corruption, or a security experts independently audits OpenSSL, everyone benefits of the relevant freedom b…
ahh, so you don't want software to be commercial, is that it?