China bans consumption and trade of wild animals • Hacker News Board

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#91

Post by d0mine » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

drenginian wrote: post #17

bilekas wrote: post #11

It can be banned, sure, but I don't see the superstitious side of the consumption being curtailed. When you have a market for rare 'natural wondercures' being sought out, it only takes one mutation in a virus to spread on from another mammal to humans, add to that China's population density. A recipe for disaster.

You really think people in China haven’t been scared out of doing risky things like eating wild animals?

How many people are killed by sleep-deprived driving? Is it a common knowledge? Are there social ads? How many people can be saved by increasing public transportation?

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#92

Post by jbattle » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

yfzhou wrote: post #84

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we have no idea where the source is. But we do know that China is a country 9,596,961 square km in size. We also know that China's National Biosafety Laboratory, their only Level 4 microbiology lab, is located at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is 278 meters away (as the crow flies) from the Huanan Seafood Market. Said market has previously been speculated to be the source. Is it simply coincidence that…

https://goo.gl/maps/9dzPVq8XBtChHRxJA

You got me curious and I did a little digging. It seems like there are two facilities and it's not clear to me which one actually houses the samples in question.

This facility "Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Center" is actually very close to the market.

There's no street view there - seems probable this is just a normal office (there are restaurants in the same building)

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Wuhan+Jianghan+Disease+Pr...

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#93

Post by PhantomGremlin » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

yfzhou wrote: post #84

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we have no idea where the source is. But we do know that China is a country 9,596,961 square km in size. We also know that China's National Biosafety Laboratory, their only Level 4 microbiology lab, is located at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is 278 meters away (as the crow flies) from the Huanan Seafood Market. Said market has previously been speculated to be the source. Is it simply coincidence that…

https://goo.gl/maps/9dzPVq8XBtChHRxJA

Interesting.

It is about 14 km by car between the Market and the Institute of Virology.

What do you think about the Daily Mail article which says that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention (WHCDC, not the Institute of Virology, my mistake) is 278 meters away? They state that virus research is being done there. From what I see on the map there are some Union Hospital buildings, but nothing specifically identified as the WHCDC.

Edit: part of the problem seems to be in searching for the exact names of the facilities.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#94

Post by LyndsySimon » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

the_watcher wrote: post #83

Nitramp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. aka as "the rule of law". From a continental European perspective, the US stance in rule of law seems a bit dubious as well, with the president pardoning his friends, or the enormous sentences afflicted to people once, but only once, they end up in bad public standing, or elected stat…

While pardoning friends is certainly distasteful, that power is explicitly defined in the Constitution and is plenary. The only potential exception is a self-pardon. There are plenty of examples of embarrassing pardons, but it's not a rule of law failing.

> The only potential exception is a self-pardon.

I believe the exception is impeachment. Articles of Impeachment can be brought against any civil official. There's nothing stopping Congress from impeaching and removing the Ambassador to China, a Supreme Court Justice, or pretty much anyone else operating under the authority of the federal government.

It's rare for this to happen of course, but this list of impeachments is interesting reading: https://history.house.gov/Institution/Impeachment/Impeachmen...

As recently as 2010, a district court judge was impeached, convicted, removed from office and barred for perjury.

Also, as far as I'm aware, it is within the power of the Presidency to pardon themselves. If by some chance someone were elected President who had previously been convicted of a federal crime, they can pardon themselves of that crime. In theory, they could even be in prison at the time of election! I would love to say that's unlikely in the extreme, but in 2015 I watched Joe Morrissey win re-election to the Virginia House of Delegates while serving a prison sentence: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-virginia-election-idU...

There are a couple of opinions that say charging a sitting president with a federal crime would be unconstitutional, but I don't believe they're technically legally binding, nor do I understand that it was ever been decided in court.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#95

Post by blablabla123 » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #26

someperson wrote: post #24

I can't see how this can be successfully enforced without a massive education campaign and actual enforcement by authorities, including moving the so-called "wet markets" (which are outdoor butchers that are very important to the food supply chain in many areas of China) into modern indoor facilities for improved food safety. Older people in China (the so-called lost generation) are set in their ways: remember that i…

This very important. Both the PRC and USSR constitutions, on paper, arguably provide better freer basic law than that of the US but in practice it’s just words on paper. However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. So mr Xi and mr Stalin (née Jughashvili) get to purge all want-to-be usurpers.

Drawing the line to Software Engineering, it's not just about extensive planning and design, but probably mostly about feasibility and ease of use...

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#96

Post by nradov » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

mdemare wrote: post #53

bad_user wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In absence of a caloric surplus / chronic overfeeding, also known as energy poisoning , you have absolutely no proof for the claim. There isn't even an association, let alone causation. And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much . Which actually beats dying of starvation, which is what people used to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — comparing food with cigarettes or v…

In absence of guns being fired at people, guns are completely safe. There isn't even an association, let alone causation. > And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much. I guess that people could still gorge themselves on potato chips, popcorn... Maybe a few other foods? But surely it's clear that 90%+ of overeating occurs with meat and sugar?

Meat is almost never a problem for overeating. Where are you getting that idea?

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#97

Post by LyndsySimon » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

edgefield0 wrote: post #30

mc32 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This very important. Both the PRC and USSR constitutions, on paper, arguably provide better freer basic law than that of the US but in practice it’s just words on paper. However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. So mr Xi and mr Stalin (née Jughashvili) get to purge all want-to-be usurpers.

Not for long. The American Constitution is being eroded every day. We're becoming (arguably have become) a full fledged banana republic.

While I see this comment as unnecessarily partisan, I agree in principle. The US Constitution's limits on federal authority have been being weakened since the day it was written.

Or, in the words of Lysander Spooner: "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#98

Post by nradov » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

blackrock wrote: post #66

cycrutchfield wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our best guess is that SARS originated from bats and jumped to humans via masked palm civets, which are typically sold in live animal markets in China. This is not just my own pet theory, you can read the extensive literature on the topic.

This is an already known and suspected theory. But there is no evidence that it came from eating it. Then explain how MERS appeared. Did people of the Middle East suddenly have a gourmet taste for eating camels one day?

Camel meat has always been popular in the Middle East. About 3M camels are slaughtered for meat every year. It's similar to beef, and considered a halal meat for Muslims.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#99

Post by nkrisc » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #73

nobody0 wrote: post #3

We still don't know where the source is, and who the 0th patient is.

Yeah, we have no idea where the source is. But we do know that China is a country 9,596,961 square km in size. We also know that China's National Biosafety Laboratory, their only Level 4 microbiology lab, is located at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is 278 meters away (as the crow flies) from the Huanan Seafood Market. Said market has previously been speculated to be the source. Is it simply coincidence that…

> Is it simply coincidence that in a country of nearly 10 million square km the outbreak may have started less than 300 meters away from this laboratory?

Sure, why not? Coincidences happen all the time, we only pay attention to the significant ones or ones that can be used to push some agenda.

Circumstantial speculation only gets you so far, eventually you need some objective evidence.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#100

Post by Vysero » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

Imho, anything short of:

1) A permanent ban on the sale of live animals at public markets. 2) A strict nationwide enforcement of food safety regulations. 3) A government backed re-education campaign against the use of traditional Chinese medicine.

and their efforts will again fail.