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Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

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Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#101

I like the fact they present it as an either/or choice. My natural sleep cycle seems to default to a 28 hour day (eg I go to bed slightly later every evening then morning) which makes interfacing with reality pretty difficult. This seems to be something shared with a number of geeks I know.

If you're not already aware of it you may wish to read about "Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake...

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#102
post #39

I've been a night owl my whole life, with the exception of that period during secondary school where I was so depressed in the evenings I went to bed early and as a consequence woke up super early. I have followed every advice, meditation (1yr), excercise (3*1.5hrs per week for 18 months), staving off screens after 18:00 (8mo), no caffiene, no sugar, no food of any kind, I also tried: too much food, cooling my body d…

I've done everything too, and the only thing that works for me is sleeping pills. I think it's a very unpopular view nowadays (esp. after Why We Sleep), but a small dose of a benzodiazepine changes my life completely. I'm in the midst of a full diagnostic course including cerebral scans, a sleep study and blood analysis, but my neurologist told me there's a good chance that nothing actionable will be revealed and tha…

Re. Why We Sleep, do be aware it's received some criticism:

https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#103
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling your body down before going to bed will have the opposite effect if your goal is to go to sleep. By cooling your body it will start to try and warm itself and trigger a stress reaction. Eating and working out before bed will similarly raise your heart rate and sympathetic nervous system activity, the opposite of what you want. Sleeping pills are also bad for sleep, ask any sleep doctor. They are great and kno…

Rising body temperature is correlated with tiredness, that's why you feel exhausted after you've been home for 5 minutes. Meditation itself was 'mindfulness', some of it was guided, most of it was not, guided meditation was once a week (I'm not counting the yoga, which was also meditative), I spent 5 minutes in the morning, 5 minutes at lunch, 15 minutes when I got home and 5 minutes before bed. (and I'm pretty well…

Check out the somatic work of Thomas Hanna. 30 minutes of supine coordinated movement is great for the parasympathetic.

EDIT: the one I use is paid on Glo.com. Found a free one that seems similar https://youtu.be/F0jwdoSWsio

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s just the small subset of software engineers who frequent HN, but I swear 99.9% of the people on here are night owls, and they very much let their opinions be known on every thread about sleep.

Nearly everywhere in US society where productivity comes up, the “early bird” is held up as the standard of efficiency. Thus, those people who instead prefer a schedule that doesn’t begin pre-dawn have been chastised in books, talks, and in media despite there not being any proof that that they are “lazy” but rather are simply naturally attuned to a different schedule.

Interestingly, this early=virtue thing goes back more than a century. Before electric light, the common sleeping mode was in two chunks, first and second sleep. Moralizing busybodies, kin to the anti-alcohol movement, decided that second sleep was self-indulgent and unnecessary. The history podcast Backstory had a great set of segments on sleep a while back: https://www.backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/

Even as an early riser, I think the virtue part is horseshit. Not everybody has to be the same. Indeed, my (entirely unsupported) theory is that sleep schedule variation is natural and useful. In the wild, it's safer for everybody if somebody is always awake keeping an eye on things.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#105

This blog post discusses circadian rhythms; sleep cycles. I've noticed that my sleep cycle also differs from 24-hours. It's usually around 28-32 hours. Having a 9-5 job _really_ kills my productivity.

As I mentioned to someone else on this thread expressing a similar experience, if you're not already aware of it you may wish to read about "Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake...

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling your body down before going to bed will have the opposite effect if your goal is to go to sleep. By cooling your body it will start to try and warm itself and trigger a stress reaction. Eating and working out before bed will similarly raise your heart rate and sympathetic nervous system activity, the opposite of what you want. Sleeping pills are also bad for sleep, ask any sleep doctor. They are great and kno…

This is really surprising. All the studies I have read say precisely the opposite. The theory goes that because, in the environment in which our minds evolved, the temperature would ALWAYS drop at night, this is one of several signals your body responds to to prepare for sleep. Others include lower availability of food and darkness.

It goes against my experience as well. Years ago someone on HN equated an ice bath to elephant tranquilizer. So I tried it and can confirm it had a similar effect on me. In addition, I grew up in a cold climate. Being cold and absorbing my reflected body heat under the blankets made it so much easier to sleep. In contrast, hot humid nights were impossible.

Edit: Fixed phone’s stupid autocorrect.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#107
I live by a "night owl" rhythm, but my feeling is that the real reason behind it is that my sleep cycle has just never been really adjusted to the 24 hours days. For me a perfect day would be somewhere between 28 and 32 hours, and then a good 9h sleep.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#110
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling your body down before going to bed will have the opposite effect if your goal is to go to sleep. By cooling your body it will start to try and warm itself and trigger a stress reaction. Eating and working out before bed will similarly raise your heart rate and sympathetic nervous system activity, the opposite of what you want. Sleeping pills are also bad for sleep, ask any sleep doctor. They are great and kno…

Rising body temperature is correlated with tiredness, that's why you feel exhausted after you've been home for 5 minutes. Meditation itself was 'mindfulness', some of it was guided, most of it was not, guided meditation was once a week (I'm not counting the yoga, which was also meditative), I spent 5 minutes in the morning, 5 minutes at lunch, 15 minutes when I got home and 5 minutes before bed. (and I'm pretty well…

The only thing I can recommend that's helped me significantly in a rigorous way is tracking HRV overnight (heart rate variability). This is an objective indirect measure of HPA axis activity (parasympathetic vs sympathetic nervous systems). Having that data to form a feedback loop is priceless in helping you determine what things you're doing in the day that is actually having an effect on your stress levels one way or the other. As I'm sure you can imagine, my best sleep is on nights when my HRV is high. I no longer drink alcohol or work on software after 7PM in general after seeing just how much those activities would wreck my body's ability to sleep well.

I use an Oura ring for this but I bet there are cheaper methods, perhaps with a heart rate chest strap, though there's an additional bonus with the ring in that it tracks sleep phases as well.*

*to some degree of accuracy (~66%?) I use it directionally only since the values have big error bars.

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