China bans consumption and trade of wild animals • Hacker News Board

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#51

Post by cjslep » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

novaleaf wrote: post #42

edgefield0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for long. The American Constitution is being eroded every day. We're becoming (arguably have become) a full fledged banana republic.

oh come on. At least give some anicdote to back your claim.

At least consider the illiberal nature [0] of the way the current administration is rooting out the corruption, compared to following established norms to lay bare the corruption for all to see. For example, consider if during the current administration's first two years they welcomed oversight from the Republican House and Senate (a co-equal branch) to investigate and clear the President of the same things the Mueller investigation was charged with -- and then that branch (not the executive) investigated the origins of the Mueller investigation, to root out corruption. That kind of co-equal power play would have been a lot stronger than the reality of a bully executive branch trying to wade into doing everything with, what seems to be, little regard for what all future presidents can now do due to precedent, so why didn't that kind of cross-power oversight happen with a Republican-controlled executive and Congress?

[0] https://cjslep.com/c/blog/illiberalism

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#52

Post by Ididntdothis » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:19 PM UTC

novaleaf wrote: post #42

edgefield0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for long. The American Constitution is being eroded every day. We're becoming (arguably have become) a full fledged banana republic.

oh come on. At least give some anicdote to back your claim.

One thing I find concerning is that the president seems willing to use his pardoning powers for his allies. I guess Clinton did the same with Marc Rich. It certainly doesn’t look good.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#53

Post by mdemare » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #36

vraivroo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. STDs are _nothing_.

In absence of a caloric surplus / chronic overfeeding, also known as energy poisoning , you have absolutely no proof for the claim. There isn't even an association, let alone causation. And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much . Which actually beats dying of starvation, which is what people used to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — comparing food with cigarettes or v…

In absence of guns being fired at people, guns are completely safe. There isn't even an association, let alone causation.

> And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much.

I guess that people could still gorge themselves on potato chips, popcorn... Maybe a few other foods? But surely it's clear that 90%+ of overeating occurs with meat and sugar?

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#54

Post by tenpies » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

drenginian wrote: post #17

bilekas wrote: post #11

It can be banned, sure, but I don't see the superstitious side of the consumption being curtailed. When you have a market for rare 'natural wondercures' being sought out, it only takes one mutation in a virus to spread on from another mammal to humans, add to that China's population density. A recipe for disaster.

You really think people in China haven’t been scared out of doing risky things like eating wild animals?

To most people, death is as scary as it gets.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#55

Post by failrate » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

Nitramp wrote: post #38

mc32 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This very important. Both the PRC and USSR constitutions, on paper, arguably provide better freer basic law than that of the US but in practice it’s just words on paper. However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. So mr Xi and mr Stalin (née Jughashvili) get to purge all want-to-be usurpers.

> However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. aka as "the rule of law". From a continental European perspective, the US stance in rule of law seems a bit dubious as well, with the president pardoning his friends, or the enormous sentences afflicted to people once, but only once, they end up in bad public standing, or elected stat…

That is the opposite of "rule of law".

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#56

Post by blackrock » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

There is a lot of stupid and non-sense talk about how the coronavirus was created, because of Chinese people eating bats.

There is no scientific evidence to support this!

Instead, this exposes the deep-seated biases and prejudices, that Westerners (white people) have of Easterners, and specifically, the Chinese, in this case. It also didn’t help that the Trump Administration went on a negative media assault for the past 3 years to demonize the Chinese, so they are now an easy scapegoat for all troubles in the world. This really does not help the situation.

Now, how about a different theory?

Animals normally develop immunity to their environment, and from the viruses that exist in that area. This is the law of natural selection in play. Those that survive, go on and reproduce, and carry the antibodies to protect their offspring. Those that don’t, will die off, and their bodies will be eaten by vultures.

I suspect that the coronavirus mutated and appeared, because of an animal from one part of the world, was shipped to another part of the world, where it didn’t have natural immunity to the diseases of that region. In this case, a bat carrying the virus.

Maybe an animal from Africa, was transported to Asia, where it would have never traveled there by itself. That animal got sick, and triggered a mutation, which infected a human handling it, which mutated again, and infected another human, and now, we have an outbreak.

The key to understanding this may be in how the MERS virus appeared. It’s believed to come from bats, which infected a camel, which infected a human. Do people in the Middle East eat camels? No, I don’t think so.

So why should SARS and this COVID-19 virus be any different?

Limiting the transport of live animals, to different areas of the world, should help minimize future virus outbreaks. But, humans have been transporting live animals all over the world, for hundreds or thousands of years, ever since boats were first invented. So I suspect, that it is only a matter of time before another novel coronavirus appears. And global warming may also be playing a factor too, in triggering viruses and diseases in nature, that had previously been dormant.

This is HN. Most people here are scientifically and technically educated. Do your part. Analyze the situation scientifically. Change the narrative. Otherwise, we risk devolving into our deep seated fears and prejudices. We lose our humanity in the process.

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#57

Post by Nitramp » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:34 PM UTC

failrate wrote: post #55

Nitramp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, also in practice the faction in power gets to capriciously enforce what it wants selectively, usually to solidify standing. aka as "the rule of law". From a continental European perspective, the US stance in rule of law seems a bit dubious as well, with the president pardoning his friends, or the enormous sentences afflicted to people once, but only once, they end up in bad public standing, or elected stat…

That is the opposite of "rule of law".

Uh, yes indeed :-)

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#58

Post by cycrutchfield » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

blackrock wrote: post #56

There is a lot of stupid and non-sense talk about how the coronavirus was created, because of Chinese people eating bats. There is no scientific evidence to support this! Instead, this exposes the deep-seated biases and prejudices, that Westerners (white people) have of Easterners, and specifically, the Chinese, in this case. It also didn’t help that the Trump Administration went on a negative media assault for the p…

Funny how you chose MERS as your example and not SARS. Intentionally trying to be disingenuous?

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#59

Post by exhilaration » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #25

someperson wrote: post #24

I can't see how this can be successfully enforced without a massive education campaign and actual enforcement by authorities, including moving the so-called "wet markets" (which are outdoor butchers that are very important to the food supply chain in many areas of China) into modern indoor facilities for improved food safety. Older people in China (the so-called lost generation) are set in their ways: remember that i…

Traditional Chinese medicine was on its way out, and China embracing science-based medicine -- until Chairman Mao introduced "barefoot doctors" as a cheap substitute for real doctors when the Chinese health care infrastructure found itself woefully understaffed.

As it races to treat patients infected with the new coronavirus, the Chinese government is seeing potential in a cocktail of antiviral drugs. It is also recommending the Peaceful Palace Bovine Pill, a traditional Chinese medicine made with the gallstone of cattle, buffalo horn, jasmine and pearl.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/world/asia/coronavirus-tr...

Re: China bans consumption and trade of wild animals

#60

Post by bad_user » Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

mdemare wrote: post #53

bad_user wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In absence of a caloric surplus / chronic overfeeding, also known as energy poisoning , you have absolutely no proof for the claim. There isn't even an association, let alone causation. And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much . Which actually beats dying of starvation, which is what people used to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — comparing food with cigarettes or v…

In absence of guns being fired at people, guns are completely safe. There isn't even an association, let alone causation. > And it would be naive to think that eliminating added sugar and meat would prevent people from eating too much. I guess that people could still gorge themselves on potato chips, popcorn... Maybe a few other foods? But surely it's clear that 90%+ of overeating occurs with meat and sugar?

Comparing guns to food is also completely ridiculous.

FYI 100 grams of walnuts has 654 kcal, roughly equivalent to 350 grams of French fries, or... 400 grams of chicken breast, which also happens to have 124 grams of protein, which no natural vegan source can match. Or 650 grams of cod w/ 148 grams of protein.

Show me the people that got fat from eating boiled chicken breast or cod. Show me the studies that show any kind of association between lean meat and disease for that matter.

Also 500 grams of watermelon, which we can easily eat at a single meal has 150 kcal and about 6 teaspoons of sugar (fructose and sucrose).

Show me the people that got fat or sick from eating too much watermelon.

---

100% of the people that got fat or sick also breathe air and walk around. Maybe they should stop breathing, no?

That's not a correlation unless you can show the variables are dependent.

Show me the studies showing dependence. I'll wait.