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AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#181

Post by ksec »

jayd16 wrote: post #93
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not dense. Not by any measure. Show me a statistic that shows that the Bay Area is dense in comparison to anywhere else in the world. I am so sick of people make such incredibly inaccurate statements about density and housing.

>Not by any measure. Person per mile squared? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

I mean forget about the ridiculously crowed cities in Asia like Tokyo and Seoul ( Or the worst being Hong Kong ), even the European Cities are more populated. And SF isn't anywhere near close.

If Americans dont fix housing problem, any form of UBI is meaningless.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_popul...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_d...

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#182

Post by phreeza »

mech1234 wrote: post #32
rmah wrote: post #24

Can they not do basic math? There are around 30 mil adults in California. Even if provision 18992.1 (b) is 5 mil people, that's still 25 mil people. That's 25 mil * $12,000 = $300 bil a year. The ENTIRE California state budget for 2020 is only $220 bil. They would have to more than double the tax revenue for a state with already very high taxes. Now, assuming the most generous interpretation of their 10% VAT proposal…

This bill will not pass. Its introduction is primarily a signalling exercise and a populist rallying cry.

This exact thing was said about Brexit, too.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#183

Post by cm2187 »

JamesLeonis wrote: post #99
cm2187 wrote: post #33

If I read it correctly it seems to apply to all residents over 18, present legally or not. Combining UBI with open borders / non enforcement of immigration policy is going to be interesting from a budget point of view.

"California Resident" is a significant phrase. Here's an entire document that details how California determines it [0], specifically how it taxes those individuals. Sections F through I, with specific details in G, govern these specifications. How about doing a little digging before appealing to wild speculation? [0]: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2019/2019-1031-publication.pdf

> How about doing a little digging before appealing to wild speculation?

Since you are being condescendent about this, would you perhaps mind letting me know where in that document it states that you need to have entered the US legally to be resident?

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#184

Post by ppf »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #110
moralestapia wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's easy, we only need 10% of the total economic output of California" Whew ...

The money doesn't disappear. An argument can be made that transferring money from the rich to the poor will boost the economy rather than hurting it. The average taxpayer should be net-zero: the exact same amount going out in new taxes as is coming in in UBI. They'll scream "my taxes went up by $1000 per month!" conveniently ignoring the $1000 per month cheque they're also receiving. That's assuming a fully costed pr…

Maybe, but not all consumer spending is created equal. You get the industry and commerce that consumers purchase.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#185

Post by kyleee »

JamesLeonis wrote: post #99
cm2187 wrote: post #33

If I read it correctly it seems to apply to all residents over 18, present legally or not. Combining UBI with open borders / non enforcement of immigration policy is going to be interesting from a budget point of view.

"California Resident" is a significant phrase. Here's an entire document that details how California determines it [0], specifically how it taxes those individuals. Sections F through I, with specific details in G, govern these specifications. How about doing a little digging before appealing to wild speculation? [0]: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2019/2019-1031-publication.pdf

Do you mind providing a summary for those following this thread?

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#186

Post by dang »

m0zg wrote: post #167

Funny how HN readers can be at the same time overwhelmingly for Andrew Yang, and against the measure that implements one of the selling points of his campaign. :-)

"HN readers" aren't a person. They're a large population sample that is divided on divisive issues the same way any other large population sample is.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#187

Post by Aloha »

jonahss wrote: post #70
carlisle_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't exclude medicaid, that's a federal program. These are the programs it excludes: > Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance I'm not entirely sure why, though.

My read on the exclusions is that UBI as a form of welfare solves an issue all our other welfare programs have: attempting to apply credits to very specific costs instead of eliminating loads of administrative overhead and terrible paperwork by just giving people money to spend on what they actually need. cash instead of a giant coupon book which doesnt cover edgecases. So I could understand if they want to try to re…

the question is, does the bill make an exclusionary period, I agree that UBI is more cost effective than food stamps to provision, but medicaid isnt the same thing.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#188

Post by aidenn0 »

ac29 wrote: post #128
dessant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of your income goes to taxes? In the EU almost half of your income would be withheld for different taxes, and depending on the country, you would also get absymal health care, with a system that forces you to pay out of pocket, after a part of your salary was already taken to pay for universal health care.

The top tax bracket in CA would require you to make well over $1M for a married couple: a rate of 37% federal + 13.3% state. But depending on your definition of "almost half", this could be much lower - a combined rate of 41.3% starts at about $325k for a couple. These are income taxes only, mandatory medicare and social security taxes add a bit more.

Those are marginal rates though. A couple making $325k would pay about $98k per year in taxes.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#189

Post by epistasis »

infecto wrote: post #84
searine wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For what? Schools. Roads. Sewers. Water. Clean air. Power. Safety. Just to name a few. Nothing important really.

You joke surely? - I live in the Bay Area, we largely have some of the worst schools on average. Yes some areas are perfect but the majority you don't want your kid going to. - Roads? What roads? The roads that are over-congested? The roads that have potholes that are measured in feet deep? - Power, water, clean air? Surely some of that is covered in the fees I already pay for? I pay some of the highest water/sewer/e…

You pay high taxes because Prop 13 disallows fair taxation of long-held wealth. So the person with $500M of property, in another state, would be shouldering a fair amount of burden, but here in California they will be taxed nearly nothing if they've held the land for decades.

Instead, we have high sales tax, and high income taxes so that long-time wealthy residents have it easier.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#190

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jerf wrote: post #111
_2d30 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redistribution is zero-sum by definition.

It's worth modeling it as negative, because administration consumes non-trivial amounts of it, and in practice, often quite significant amounts of it. Part of the UBI idea is to reduce that overhead, though I'm at a loss as to how to ensure it stays low. The same politicians that turn our current system into a haphazard mess of special carveouts and regulations will still be in power and will have all the motivations…

Create a new pot of money, and watch the vultures descend. Everybody's going to want to grab a piece.
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