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AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#161

Post by Jommi »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #124
dessant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of your income goes to taxes? In the EU almost half of your income would be withheld for different taxes, and depending on the country, you would also get absymal health care, with a system that forces you to pay out of pocket, after a part of your salary was already taken to pay for universal health care.

Compared to EU California is indeed a heaven. Not kidding. Half of the startups in SV for example will not even bother to start given EU regulatory compliance.

Is this some kind of sarcasm? What kind of compliance are you talking about?

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#162

Post by alistairSH »

the_gastropod wrote: post #148
alistairSH wrote: post #96

Very mixed feelings on this. I'm in favor of UBI, but the devil is in the details and this bill doesn't pass the smell test. As noted elsewhere, $1000/month for all adult residents adds up to more than the state's current budget. The bill doesn't appear to remove other welfare programs. UBI is usually touted as a moral-judgement free program that replaces all the targeted welfare programs (food stamps, housing allowa…

> The bill doesn't appear to remove other welfare programs And I think that is the correct move. I'd expect the need for SNAP benefits, housing assistance, etc. would decrease (probably dramatically so) after UBI's implemented. But there will always be people who need help. You can't turn a blind eye to someone in need just because they're getting $12k/yr.

In theory, any UBI program would provide an amount equal to, or greater than, whatever amount was previously being provided.

So, if CA food stamps + local housing assistance = $12k, then UBI would also be $12k. Otherwise, as you say, UBI isn't enough.

If this were part of a broader plan to consolidate benefits into a single program, it would make more sense. Give everybody the $1000 (or whatever amount) and if they qualify, bump that $1000 to $2000 (or whatever amount works out).

The whole point of UBI is to get out of managing many programs, with the overhead those entail. And if you have a libertarian tilt, it also gets us out of dictating morals to the poor.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#165

Post by papreclip »

madengr wrote: post #131

Think there is an illegal immigration problem in CA now? Wait until UBI.

If you buy into some of the logic I've seen kicking around recently that: >housing shortage prevents poor people from participating in centers of high productivity, which reduces their economic output

then attracting as many warm bodies as possible to these "centers of productivity" will result in an explosion of wealth production

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#166

Post by searine »

infecto wrote: post #84
searine wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For what? Schools. Roads. Sewers. Water. Clean air. Power. Safety. Just to name a few. Nothing important really.

You joke surely? - I live in the Bay Area, we largely have some of the worst schools on average. Yes some areas are perfect but the majority you don't want your kid going to. - Roads? What roads? The roads that are over-congested? The roads that have potholes that are measured in feet deep? - Power, water, clean air? Surely some of that is covered in the fees I already pay for? I pay some of the highest water/sewer/e…

>Again, I ask, what for?

You live in the most expensive real-estate in the country and complain that it costs money to maintain.

Pay your fair share.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#168

Post by searine »

option wrote: post #55
searine wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For what? Schools. Roads. Sewers. Water. Clean air. Power. Safety. Just to name a few. Nothing important really.

WA has no income tax and their schools aren’t worse. Oregon has no sales tax and their schools aren’t worse. Are CA public schools by far the best in the nation? ( they are not) Edit: before you jump into the “other means funding” - I lived (and owned house) in WA and CA and the overall tax burden is MUCH higher in CA

WA and Oregon are not comparable in terms of population or demographics.

They have different needs which are met with different tax burdens. If you want the luxury of living in CA, then you need to pay your share.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#169

Post by carlisle_ »

lukeschlather wrote: post #41
carlisle_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't exclude medicaid, that's a federal program. These are the programs it excludes: > Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance I'm not entirely sure why, though.

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal > Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program. Because the ACA basically allows states to opt-out of providing medicaid, Medicaid has separate agencies for every state.

Good to know thank you.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#170

Post by dev_hacker »

randyrand wrote: post #130
dev_hacker wrote: post #113

There is no hope of something like this passing in the US. If it doesn't disenfranchise at least a few hated social groups its flat out un-American and the people won't stand for it. Fuck over felons, recent immigrants, black people, or someone like this and you might have a chance of getting it through. I'll grant you that California is its own weird little world, so yeah maybe its possible there, but for sure this…

> Fuck over felons, recent immigrants, black people, or someone like this and you might have a chance of getting it through. This is surprising to me. Which recent california laws are you referring to that have done this?

Ah no, I am not saying California is up to this, but the rest of the US definitely is. I am from VA and can assure you that people would not be comfortable giving money equally to say, sex offenders or black people, as their WASP neighbor here. California is not like the rest of the US at all, so I withhold my opinion on what could pass there.
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