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Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

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Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#81
post #14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, even if you were to ignore the upfront preparation costs just the timeline (months with not much indication) makes it pretty tough sell. EDIT: Just, in general, it would be pretty difficult to commit time to such a task when it's more fulfilling to work on personal side projects (and potentially leverage that for employment offers).

> it would be pretty difficult to commit time to such a task when it's more fulfilling to work on personal side projects Or if you, I dunno... have a child. That's something that (as a relatively new parent) leaps out at me with interview requirements like this. It feels like you need to get a job at Google before becoming a parent, or you're going to need to wait until your kid is in high school.

What kind of parenting do you do where you can't find one day in your life for an on-site interview? Most parents (including us) can find time to have hobbies and life besides parenting (which also includes days not being home), is that really such an overwhelming thing to go through for one of the best paid jobs in the world?!

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#82

This shouldn't be shocking to anyone. There's clearly a staggering surplus of people who will jump through any and every hoop for the opportunity to work at Google. What's Google's incentive to change their process?

All true, but Google's reputation is starting to take a small hit on this. They'll always draw people who want high comp, but they may start having a harder time drawing people who really care about tech.

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#83
post #28

All I have heard are nightmare stories from everyone I know whom has interviewed at a FAANG(or the likes). It's crazy how disrespectful(and frankly insulting) these companies are to candidates, under the guise of trying to get the best. I would assume the best aren't sitting around on their hands for months waiting for offers, nor are they overly willing to be jerked around.

FB wasn't so bad when I interviewed in 2016, same ritual hazing but remarkably less pedantic condescension among the panelists themselves.

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#84
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of another industry that has interviews as awful as FAANG and their copycats. There may be something out there but I've not seen it. Try describing what they do to non-tech folks and watch the reactions. Incredulity and/or astonishment are typical, in my experience. But yes we do have tons of jobs and IME most places don't do this crap. So that's nice, compared with how other workers have it. Though you…

I'm sure if they didn't have the interviews, they'd only select from Ivy League or top X school computer science graduate pools. I bet investment bank or hedge fund jobs are/were just as tough for anyone to apply to and get.

[deleted]

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#85
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there are industries where this is a lot more punishing. Personally I'm not prepared to go through that bullshit, so I just get a job somewhere else. But we're lucky that our industry is flush with jobs, I have to imagine other industries have similar requirements that are much less avoidable. And maybe there will be a downturn in tech one day, and I'll very much rue this day.

I'm not aware of another industry that has interviews as awful as FAANG and their copycats. There may be something out there but I've not seen it. Try describing what they do to non-tech folks and watch the reactions. Incredulity and/or astonishment are typical, in my experience. But yes we do have tons of jobs and IME most places don't do this crap. So that's nice, compared with how other workers have it. Though you…

That's because other well paid industries have YEARS of this - called "college", "internships" and several other terms where you go through months and months of grueling hazing rituals to have a far shot of anything remotely as well paid as a FAANG job.

Get some perspective, c'mon :(

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#86
post #9

I interviewed at Google for an SRE:Systems role around a month ago; I can share my anecdotes. The first interview put me in contact with a recruiter who would basically be my guide throughout the process, at first he asked me some basic questions to feel out where I was weak and then told me to prepare those weaknesses for the next round. The next round was 2 phone interviews, lasting about an hour each and over diff…

I would never dare to suggest writing a new database in a professional context, even less during an interview. Probably as a joke at the coffee machine because it's ridiculous but otherwise no. It's so many distributed databases around there, no one is better than one good PostgreSQL for the majority of uses cases.

Google's requirements differ. Also if the interview question was about distributed systems, "I'll just use Postgres" is not super constructive

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#87

The best way to get a job at google is to get some high ranking insiders to refer you and then show up at the interview and do your best. The yammering about how to ace the coding interview overlooks that without a referral you are at a severe disadvantage.

Among my collegues at L5-L6, we found it rare that anybody we referred was hired.

(I'm an Xoogler, and was there 2013-15)

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#88
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Extrapolate from one data point. Many many people are happy here. No matter how hard HN tries to avoid this fact by citing random blog posts.

Unfortunately, a lot of the most damning stuff posted here, has been from google employees. I remember a long HN post recently where Google Engineers were lamenting about how they do nothing at work all day, are losing their skills, and only stick around for outrageous pay. Outwardly happy is not always the truth of the matter.

Talk about confirmation bias. Do you think people who are happy will come and post on HN ? "TellHN: I am really happy with my work at Google "

Re: Google interviewing process for software developer role in 2020

#90
Alright, so Mountain View is waking up now and you'll get comments from Googlers, so here is mine.

DISCLAIMERS:

1. I work for Google, but these opinions are mine.

2. Everyone at Google is expected to interview, but I no longer do, and have not for two or three years. I have a medical exemption because for anxiety. Trust me, I know just as much as any candidate how stressful it is to be in that room.

3. I interviewed candidates for software engineering jobs.

4. I was an intern 8 years ago and 7 years ago, then flipped to full time 6 years ago.

5. I _do not believe I would pass the interview process cold_. As an intern, I got to use feedback from my internships to count for half of the interviews I would normally need to take. This was clutch: I'm good as a software engineer but would tank most Google interviews. I studied hard and I took mock interviews with my team while I was an intern. I knew my way around the campus and the rooms weren't alien to me, so I felt more comfortable.

6. None of this is meant to be a defense or repudiation of the OP's experience, nor is it meant to be a defense of Google or Google's hiring process. It's just meant to offer my explanation of why things are they way they are (other people may have difference perceptions of course).

With all that out of the way...

I've never met anyone at Google who is under any illusion that the hiring process is where the company would want it to be if anyone in the process could wave a magic wand. Even 8 years ago this was true. From the outside looking in, the process is byzantine and the experience of the OP is not as uncommon as one would hope.

The only way to make sense of it in your mind is to pretend to be on the inside looking out. Think of the interviewing process as a result of a set of constraints:

* Constraint 1: Google skews very heavily for no false positives, thus increasing the number of false negatives.

* Constraint 2: Google wants to hire as many people as it can that meet the bar in order to grow the way it wants, and it gets an enormous number of applications each year. But "Google" the company still grounds out to actual people running the show, and juggling this enormous candidate load is unenviable at best.

* Constraint 3: Because of how many people are being interviewed and the high bar, each interviewer somehow need to judge a candidate's quality within just one hour. This leads interviewers to ask hard/really hard questions about things you likely won't ever code but candidates who did good in school (or were good at studying for the interview) would have a shot at. I would never do this as I don't think that's a good signal at all; I would always ask questions that were basically about standard coding. I'd even print out a sheet of code that worked but had a number of code health failures and would ask candidates to do a code review of it.

Google has two main goals:

1. Hire the right people.

2. Knowing that the false negative rate is so high, make sure the process is pleasant enough that candidates will come back again.

I think 1 is doing pretty well, 2 is not, and 2 is not because it's buckling under the constraints. I would always try to help on a micro-level by doing things like checking if the candidate needed water, food, bathroom, testing out the whiteboard pens and replacing the bad ones (if I was nervous and I found my pen wasn't working straight off, I'd be thrown for a total loop), giving them 5 minutes to recenter themselves quietly, whatever. But those micro-level interactions don't help the macro-level experience.

You can imagine many ways of interviewing that would be better if you didn't have those constraints. If I was CEO of a startup, candidates who passed basic screening would be given access to the code base and asked to work for a day or two on an open bug. That would give you signal on their coding ability, ability to see through the ambiguity in the bug, work through an alien code base etc. etc. It would be great. It isn't possible here because there's so many candidates to work through.

There have been multiple initiatives over the years to try and make the process better, each one small nudges rather than global overhauls to avoid rocking the boat too much. After all, the process does kind of work: I work with smart people who I like being around and have done across all the teams I've been on, so something is working in the results. I think interviewees can now use a laptop for writing code in a room, for example (don't quote me on it, I stopped interviewing before that).

So, that's that. I hope it helps in understanding things, at least.

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