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On Voice Coding

dusty.phillips.codes

21–30 of 186 posts

Re: On Voice Coding

#21
I've been voice coding for about 5 years now. For those of you not on windows, I use talon voice on mac (linux version is in beta). It works quite well and I'm at least as productive writing code by voice than I ever was by hand. I was someone who would spend the time to get my emacs and then later vim configs highly optimized, but there is something liberating about not constraining yourself to key bindings. I used to type gcC to comment a python class in vim, now I say comment class. For commands you type frequently to get into muscle memory this isn't a huge gain, but for all the things you don't use regularly, it's so much easier for me to remember normal words than keyboard shortcuts.

Re: On Voice Coding

#22
This post starts out talking about expecting to spend around $1,000.

There are at least two cross-platform projects where the biggest expense is a microphone instead of software.

1. My project, Talon. Windows/Linux/Mac support, and a first party local speech recognition engine that is pretty good and getting better. It’s free, but the engine is in a private beta (which is $15/mo to support development, optional if there’s a financial issue).

2. Serenade. They are VC backed. Currently free, unsure about their longer term plans. They use cloud based recognition.

Re: On Voice Coding

#23
It's still surprising to see Dragon Speech Recognition as the recommended (and only) choice here.

Is anyone working on decent speech recognition for Mac/Linux or know good resources for that? The ideal output is a stream of what could have been said, as well as some alternatives, each with a confidence.

Every alternative I've tried has not been as effective as the version of Dragon I used from 2011. I think the focus on accents and training is a big thing here -- I'm happy to spend a couple hours training it for better results.

Re: On Voice Coding

#24
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been typing just about 4-16 hours a day going on 30 years now without RSI. Fingers crossed.

Isn’t that sort of like saying, I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes for 30 years, fingers crossed? Some people are more susceptible to problems. This was on HN several years ago. http://www.looknohands.me/ You can be in your 20’s and have a problem.

I actively try to switch things up, depending on if I feel something is starting to get uncomfortable. If my mouse hand starts to give signals, I'll switch to using keyboard more. Regardless I'll switch seating position and hand orientation throughout the day.

So in that respect it's unlike smoking I guess.

Re: On Voice Coding

#25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should use better languages. Better understood and integrated with the editor and better at expressing every level of abstraction. cough pretty much any lisp cough

Or you could take a short break every so often What we really need are better programmers

Tools matter. First ascent of Eiger’s north face took few days and team of 4. Last I heard Ueli Steck did it few years ago solo in less than 2 hours.

Maybe he was better but not by that much. His tools were unquestionably better.

Re: On Voice Coding

#26
post #20

I was curious what this might look like and found a couple videos on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBhBqlQj00Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGPNs5C1Lp0

Some of the voice coding videos I’ve found are a little contrived, or seem practiced (Even some of mine were just copying code from one window to another or demoing one small feature). In this playlist, I do a lot of code from scratch, by competing in Advent of Code 2018 for the first week:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2wTcyeSmhsZuHqbSlLAx...

As I start each day exactly when the problem is revealed, without any prior knowledge of the task, everything about these videos including debugging broken code is completely real.

Re: On Voice Coding

#27
post #23

It's still surprising to see Dragon Speech Recognition as the recommended (and only) choice here. Is anyone working on decent speech recognition for Mac/Linux or know good resources for that? The ideal output is a stream of what could have been said, as well as some alternatives, each with a confidence. Every alternative I've tried has not been as effective as the version of Dragon I used from 2011. I think the focus…

The best alternative right now for voice coding is https://github.com/daanzu/kaldi-active-grammar. wav2letter is also under use by some, although requires more effort to setup

Re: On Voice Coding

#28
I had my second surgery just a few months ago. I can type again, but each time I had to use my left hand for months. Initially, it feels like your brain doesn't function properly anymore (not mentioning the psychological effort you have to make in order to be focused on work when you feel your hands are falling apart). Keyboard speed is directly related to how fast you can move your hands to support your thought flow. I tried Kinesis and even a split vertical keyboard (KeyboardIo) but none avoided the pain and numbness that came with typing. The other problem with thumb-cluster keyboards is that your IDE productivity goes to zero. I was faster with just my left hand on a regular keyboard than with both. I think this would be fixable with a good amount of time remapping shortcuts, etc. Now that my hand works again, I think I should start spending time getting used to my KeyboardIO and at least try to buy some time.

The "voice coding" space is maybe not a mess, but far from great or even acceptable. However, there seem to be more recent efforts to make better tools. I would definitely check https://serenade.ai/ out.

The main problem, I think is that "voice coding" is too much focused on editor typing which they can't do right as, when combined with code syntax, it becomes too complex. Instead, they should focus on higher level actions (which btw, Serenade does) along with a different approach to typing. I think Vim is a good example of where editing should be. IntelliJ refactoring is where voice coding should start. With all the AI buzz, it's unbelievable how bad voice recognition is. I'm not talking about "Siri set an alarm", but instead separating context from tone, not having to say things 2-3 times having good response latency, etc.

Lastly, I wish there was simple voice assistance for code navigation - like go to definition, find usages, etc. This is much simpler to "parse" than code structure. Unfortunately, this is not even tackled by any tool as far as I've seen.

Re: On Voice Coding

#29
post #15
post #4

FYI, I thought my programming career was over due to RSI. Now, I only type while wearing long-sleeves. And of course, I still have to take regular breaks. I no longer suffer RSI symptoms. I'm guessing because it increases blood flow to the area and perhaps the warmth helps keep ligaments and muscles flexible and loose. Simple solution, but took a while to figure out. Hopefully this helps someone reading this.

For me the best way to fight RSI was weight lifting exercises to strengthen my palms. That and a trackball.

Well, be careful. I love trackballs, and have used them exclusively for 25+ years. But... “trackball thumb” is a thing. I had a physical therapist show me how to work out issues when I get them, but ultimately the healthiest thing for me to do is to switch between 3 different trackballs to change up the motions.

Re: On Voice Coding

#30
post #23

It's still surprising to see Dragon Speech Recognition as the recommended (and only) choice here. Is anyone working on decent speech recognition for Mac/Linux or know good resources for that? The ideal output is a stream of what could have been said, as well as some alternatives, each with a confidence. Every alternative I've tried has not been as effective as the version of Dragon I used from 2011. I think the focus…

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