States solving their own problems. If it's also properly funded by the state, it's the way it should be.
It says it will be funded by a 10% VAT.
Which is only a couple percent more than existing sales tax
AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
11–20 of 207 posts
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#12Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. And perhaps this'll be the first program to survive the trolls and nay-sayers who will find the smallest niche failures and sspout the "If ANYONE falls through the cracks it's a FAILURE!"
Even in CA this has no chance of passing, right? I mean they couldn't even pass the mass transit zoning changes. CA may be relatively liberal but I don't think it has the appetite for this level of increased taxation and spending.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#13> (b) California residents who are 18 years of age or older and receiving benefits under the Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance shall not be eligible to receive a universal basic income under the CalUBI Program. I must be misunderstanding something. If you're unemployed and getting unemployment benefits you don't get your UBI? I…
Yes and no? The point of UBI is to replace all of that social spending (and its resultant nasty discontinuities), so that’s keeping with the spirit, kind of. Though even better (under the logic of UBI) would be to give it to everyone and get rid of those programs.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#14> (b) California residents who are 18 years of age or older and receiving benefits under the Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance shall not be eligible to receive a universal basic income under the CalUBI Program. I must be misunderstanding something. If you're unemployed and getting unemployment benefits you don't get your UBI? I…
The idea with UBI is that it replaces other forms of government assistance. Since this is a test and obviously California doesn't want to end it's unemployment insurance in case the test goes badly, it's exempting those people using the other programs from this one.
Basically, no double dipping.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#15> (b) California residents who are 18 years of age or older and receiving benefits under the Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance shall not be eligible to receive a universal basic income under the CalUBI Program. I must be misunderstanding something. If you're unemployed and getting unemployment benefits you don't get your UBI? I…
[deleted]
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#16I'm confused by "18992.1 (B)." So if you fall on hard times (e.g. unemployment) and UBI would be most beneficial you now have to pick between UBI and health insurance? That doesn't make basic sense to me, and undermines the whole "universal" part.
Plus managing those exclusions would likely cost more than it would save (imagine all the additional management overhead of cross-checking programs and or having people certify they aren't on them/policing fraud).
Actually I find the under-18 restriction kind of questionable too, since this could be a great system for supporting poor families. The real reason this cannot just happen outright is that it "competes" with too many other benefits that it could just outright replace instead.
The biggest problem with scrapping health insurance for UBI is that health insurance is astronomically expensive. I can see the argument for giving families with kids $1K/per kid, and just scrapping the food program to name one example.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#17US Rep. Tulsi Gabbard has also indicated she'll be putting a UBI legislation on the US Congress house floor in the coming weeks.
Edit: making it clear it's federal level not state level legislation.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#18> (b) California residents who are 18 years of age or older and receiving benefits under the Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance shall not be eligible to receive a universal basic income under the CalUBI Program. I must be misunderstanding something. If you're unemployed and getting unemployment benefits you don't get your UBI? I…
The idea with UBI is that it replaces other forms of government assistance. Since this is a test and obviously California doesn't want to end it's unemployment insurance in case the test goes badly, it's exempting those people using the other programs from this one. Basically, no double dipping.
That makes sense. I wonder why they don't migrate at least some of those people to UBI, though. I think that would be what you would want to test.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#19> (b) California residents who are 18 years of age or older and receiving benefits under the Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance shall not be eligible to receive a universal basic income under the CalUBI Program. I must be misunderstanding something. If you're unemployed and getting unemployment benefits you don't get your UBI? I…
This bill is false advertising. The U in UBI means universal. Those rules above are the opposite of that.
Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income
#20Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. And perhaps this'll be the first program to survive the trolls and nay-sayers who will find the smallest niche failures and sspout the "If ANYONE falls through the cracks it's a FAILURE!"
It’s not UBI if you means test a lot of the poor out of it, which this bill actually does. Instead, it’s just going to push them even further away from things like stable housing, as landlords jack up rents to eat it all up.
Also, it’s funded by a regressive tax. Also, my reading says everyone’s rent (edit: and child care!) is going up 10%, but hopefully, I’m wrong:
> It is the intent of the Legislature to fund the CalUBI Program with a value-added tax of 10 percent on goods and services, except medicine, medical supplies and equipment, educational materials, including textbooks, tuition or fees for education, food, groceries, and clothing.