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Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

neilwithdata.com

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Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree that if you want actually to be able to do the math then you need to do the exercises. Do we agree that if you don't do the exercises then you probably won't actually be able to do the math? You are discussing learning about the math, and not eventually being able to do it, because you say that you don't care about becoming a mathematician, therefore you don't need to do the math. Fair enough. But my reading…

>You are discussing learning about the math You keep repeating this but you're evading the question about abel-ruffini and the question about whether reading a history book is "learning about history" as opposed to learning history. You're making a weird distinction. People learn in different ways. Some by doing exercises and some by just playing with the objects. I wonder how you think actual research mathematicians…

Learning about history is not the same as then being able to do research in history, nor being able to apply the principles learned from it in context. So no, reading a history book is learning about history, not necessarily being able to "do history".

> You're making a weird distinction.

As someone who has done a PhD, done research in math, done research in computing, worked in research and development in industry, taught math, and headed a team doing research in technology, this is a distinction that I can clearly see. My inability to explain it to you is regrettable.

> People learn in different ways.

Yes they do.

> Some by doing exercises and some by just playing with the objects.

Doing the exercises is playing with the objects to try to answer specific questions. Good exercises are carefully constructed to help the reader learn how those objects work in an efficient manner.

> I wonder how you think actual research mathematicians learn new math from papers that don't include exercises lol.

In my experience research mathematicians learn now math from papers by, in essence, constructing their own exercises based on what they're reading. In general it takes significant experience and training to be able to do that.

Clearly you don't think one needs to do the exercises subsequently to be able to do the math. Good for you.

I disagree.

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#152

Does anybody have any experience with How to Prove It? by Velleman? Recently I was thinking of starting on it, but I'm not sure about the level of commitment necessary.

Seems to have some intro to logic and math language, if you have never read an math books as the ones referred in this post, that book should be a nice way to ease into it.

I see, thanks. I do have some experience with proofs and maths in general, but I never went through a text dedicated explicitly to developing proving techniques.

I might give it a go anyway, but do you know of a more advanced version of this book as well?

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#153
post #125
post #6

I know this is going to be the case for likely nobody, but I have browsed most of the self-study math threads that pop up here as a forever-on-my-todo-list thing and I have a remark to make: I have yet to find a guide that does not start with the assumption that you graduated highschool. That is a very reasonable assumption to make. We are in a community of technology and engineering, it would be a bit ridiculous to…

I hope I'm not too late here, but if you are in the US I would highly, highly recommend signing up for developmental classes at your local community college. You are exactly whom those classes are for. If you've tried on your own before and struggled to stay motivated, doing it in a structured way, in 15 week "sprints", may be just the kickstart to your self-study program you need. Disclaimer: I was a full-time commu…

Seconding this. After high school, I worked in industry until I got bored, and went back to school starting with community college. I'd never thought I was good at math, and I placed into pre-college algebra. Programming had taught me to think methodically, so I crushed those early classes. Fast-forward a decade; I've got a PhD in math (nothing like what I set out to do; I just followed my passion).

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#154
post #6

I know this is going to be the case for likely nobody, but I have browsed most of the self-study math threads that pop up here as a forever-on-my-todo-list thing and I have a remark to make: I have yet to find a guide that does not start with the assumption that you graduated highschool. That is a very reasonable assumption to make. We are in a community of technology and engineering, it would be a bit ridiculous to…

> Also, curse the Greeks for not using more idiomatic variables. ∑ would never pass code review, what an entirely unreadable identifier)

i guess its idiomatic if you know "Greek".. ∑ is sigma, greek letter S, so Summation. And Π is pi, for Product..

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are discussing learning about the math You keep repeating this but you're evading the question about abel-ruffini and the question about whether reading a history book is "learning about history" as opposed to learning history. You're making a weird distinction. People learn in different ways. Some by doing exercises and some by just playing with the objects. I wonder how you think actual research mathematicians…

Learning about history is not the same as then being able to do research in history, nor being able to apply the principles learned from it in context. So no, reading a history book is learning about history, not necessarily being able to "do history". > You're making a weird distinction. As someone who has done a PhD, done research in math, done research in computing, worked in research and development in industry,…

>As someone who has done a PhD, done research in math, done research in computing, worked in research and development in industry, taught math

Me too so now what? I don't think your credentials give you any real authority but just make you look like you're gatekeeping.

>Doing the exercises is playing with the objects to try to answer specific questions.

Great so then we're in agreement: playing with the object is doing the exercise.

The funny thing is that at one time I actually did all of the exercises in volume 1 of apóstol's calculus. You know what effect on me it had? I was so bored I didn't read volume 2. And today I'd still need to look up the trig substitutions to do a vexing integral.

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#156
post #125
post #6

I know this is going to be the case for likely nobody, but I have browsed most of the self-study math threads that pop up here as a forever-on-my-todo-list thing and I have a remark to make: I have yet to find a guide that does not start with the assumption that you graduated highschool. That is a very reasonable assumption to make. We are in a community of technology and engineering, it would be a bit ridiculous to…

I hope I'm not too late here, but if you are in the US I would highly, highly recommend signing up for developmental classes at your local community college. You are exactly whom those classes are for. If you've tried on your own before and struggled to stay motivated, doing it in a structured way, in 15 week "sprints", may be just the kickstart to your self-study program you need. Disclaimer: I was a full-time commu…

Might want to ask current students about those classes first.

My experience with community college math developmental classes was: "Go to this AV room, watch these videos, do these workbooks. If you have questions, I have office hours on these days.". Which was terrible. I did have someone I could come to with things I didn't understand, but it was obviously not something they liked doing and you had little choice about the material used.

This was decades ago, but I'm betting that now it's: "Watch these Youtube videos, do these workbooks. If you have questions, ask them in our online forums." Which is likely worse than just doing your own thing.

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#157
I came to the IT industry after a bachelor degree in math, 5 years in and all the math I know is gone I still remember some Fourier, signal processing and probability statistics that I never used in my day job, or anywhere else.

Time is valuable, it's the most valuable thing a human being has, I understand it's the hobby of OP to learn all this math, but unless you are going to use it why wasting all the time?

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#159
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would use Khan Academy. Start at a level that feels too easy, even if it's elementary school math. The key to learning anything is to start at a level that feels too easy and gradually increase difficulty. As you finish a subject, see if there's a corresponding book in the Art of Problem Solving store [0]; you can revisit the subject at a deeper level that will strengthen your foundation. The AoPS books will also e…

++Anki Myself and my daughters use Anki every day. It has been the defining factor in turning my mediocre job into a career. And Ankidroid on Android is open source.

Like other sibling comments, I would also like to know how you have used Anki to transform your career.

I like Anki but I have never been able to figure out how to capture complex and often long business related information in tiny cards.

Re: Mathematics for the Adventurous Self-Learner

#160
post #6

I know this is going to be the case for likely nobody, but I have browsed most of the self-study math threads that pop up here as a forever-on-my-todo-list thing and I have a remark to make: I have yet to find a guide that does not start with the assumption that you graduated highschool. That is a very reasonable assumption to make. We are in a community of technology and engineering, it would be a bit ridiculous to…

GREAT QUESTION!

tl;dr - don't be afraid to go back to math concepts from elementary school to help you along the way to learning more math.

You have a gaggle of responses to go through, but I want to put this out there anyways.

Algebra is talked about as a 'breaking point' for many Americans; however the solutions rarely look at what transpired (or didn't) all those years before a student reached algebra.

Math standards in the United States are set so that ideally:

Kindergarten: learn to count

1st and 2nd grade: learn to think additively (+ and -)

3rd and 4th grade: learn to think multiplicatively (x and division); learn fractions

5th and 6th grade: learn to think in ratios and proportions; learn to think algebraically

Throughout all of those grades you are also supposed to be learning the properties of operations.

By the time you reach an algebra course in 8th grade or 9th grade, it requires you to call upon all of that previous knowledge.

Common problems:

- learning the properties of operations by rote and thus not understanding how to use them to manipulate algebraic equations

- not making the leap from additive to multiplicative reasoning, which hurts a students ability to understand fractions, which hurts a students ability to understand ratios and proportions, which hurts a students ability to reason with algebraic equations

- I forgot exponents. Most students only know those by rote or a bit about them before suddenly seeing huge exponents and negative exponents attached to variables in algebra.

Algebra itself may not be a problem. It is however a strong indicator of knowledge of the above. It's also where the house of cards falls down for students like you and me.

Source: was student who math fell apart for in school. I learned all about this when I left the business world to teach 4th grade, eventually created and piloted an "Arithmetic to Algebra" course for students to put all of this into practice, students learned, we rejoiced

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