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Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

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Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#71

Post by pjmlp »

forinti wrote: post #65
pjmlp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have seen that remark when XP came out, then it was Vista, followed up by how Windows 7 would drive everyone into Linux, then was how Windows 8 would do it, .... Somehow there is a pattern here, meanwhile Steam Hardware survey still shows GNU/Linux desktops at 1% on average.

Yes, and most people can't do the most basic administrative tasks on Windows. Still, they stick to Windows. It is irrational.

Irrational is expecting such users to be comfortable in environments that put UNIX straight on their face.

Apple and Google OS might use a UNIX like kernel, but none of such users will ever realise it, unless they go for the blue pill.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#72

Post by forinti »

pjmlp wrote: post #71
forinti wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and most people can't do the most basic administrative tasks on Windows. Still, they stick to Windows. It is irrational.

Irrational is expecting such users to be comfortable in environments that put UNIX straight on their face. Apple and Google OS might use a UNIX like kernel, but none of such users will ever realise it, unless they go for the blue pill.

I installed Ubuntu for my mother-in-law and she quite likes it.

I found my sister-in-law using Libre Office one day and she actually said it was nice and easy to use.

So I think people's image both of Windows and of Linux are a bit outdated.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#73

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

jevgeni wrote: post #54
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What version of Windows do people need to buy for it to (right after the installation, with no additional tweaking) have the telemetry keylogger turned off and no ads in start menu and no adware or links to other Microsoft's products there? I've been looking for such a version for a long time.

In no version do you have a "keylogger".

Ok sure they call it "telemetry". It still sends the keys I press to some remote server for "analysis". What difference does the name make?

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#74

Post by wltprgm »

enitihas wrote: post #23
allenskd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it heavily depends as well, a year ago my father had one of those phones featuring Android One and it wouldn't let you use it unless you connected to wi-fi and logged in to your account. It's bizarre that functionality is blocking you for basic usage of making a call, etc. I guess the manufacturer could have opted for that type of lock-in as well with their images, but seeing Android One is a near-stock as-is…

Just out of curiosity, which android one phone was this. I have used two android one phones, the Xiaomi A1 and the Motorola One Power, and both of them work fine without a google account.

Without a google account I can setup my Xiaomi A3 just fine.

I even disabled google play services and play store all together. Root with magisk method.

OutOfTopic: At work, I develop an app using Angular+Cordova webview, but it couldn't work on my Mi A3, always crashing like another local banking app I have (which I have uninstalled anyway). The Play store, before disabling, also black screen at google signing in page, unless I have already signed in before rooting with Magisk. Lol I wonder why it is so buggy. Should go with TWRP SuperSU root, but whatever, the A/B partition method uses up a lot of storage as well (I think)

I am thinking next time buying a Lineage OS compatible android phone to use. Android 10 is not reaching all the MI A1, A2, A3 phones at all, with Android 11 coming up already.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#75

Post by ptx »

jevgeni wrote: post #58
ptx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in one case the developer is adding something purely because they think it might benefit the user, and in the other case the developer is being paid by a third party to do something to the user that they wouldn't otherwise have done.

How is that different from any OEM bundling then? And also, how would a link to the store track and analyse you?

I guess it isn't really any different from OEM bundling, other than that you now have two links in the supply chain (both Microsoft and the OEM) being paid by third parties for adulterating the product.

(I didn't say anything about tracking, but there's plenty of that in Windows already. There are settings, enabled by default, to let Microsoft track every application you launch and every website you visit.)

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#76

Post by pjmlp »

forinti wrote: post #72
pjmlp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrational is expecting such users to be comfortable in environments that put UNIX straight on their face. Apple and Google OS might use a UNIX like kernel, but none of such users will ever realise it, unless they go for the blue pill.

I installed Ubuntu for my mother-in-law and she quite likes it. I found my sister-in-law using Libre Office one day and she actually said it was nice and easy to use. So I think people's image both of Windows and of Linux are a bit outdated.

The large majority of desktop users do not have free IT at a price of a phone call, hence 1% on Steam.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#77

Post by _glsb »

alxlaz wrote: post #70
_glsb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whataboutism defense is absolutely failing at this point. If there was material criticism on HN of say Ubuntu or other providers for the same stuff Microsoft gets criticized your words might've been credible. But there isn't and they are not. Pretending to be fair and objective is not the same thing as being fair and objective.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy even when the "what about" thing doesn't get enough attention. If Ubuntu got more criticism on HN, would the ads you see on Windows become less intrusive, or more appropriate? But FWIW, Ubuntu absolutely got, and still gets, plenty of criticism for that, even here on HN.

Just like the "fallacy fallacy" is also a fallacy.

That's not the point I'm debating. Whether I'm OK with product design choices of Microsoft is my own consumer decision. But what really is getting old, is the utterly predictable and abysmal level of discourse on this matter on HN, Reddit or wherever.

My point is, that since the Internet has learned about whataboutism, it is being used to shut down any criticism of bias. In fact, your comment uses the common formula for that "Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."

Sure, but then your actions don't really correspond to your words. If you take the amount of privacy invasion in Android, for example, HN should be loosing their collective shit on a daily basis. They don't.

This is obviously just people emotionally bashing things they have been taught are outside of their "tribe".

And that has zero credibility.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#78

Post by alxlaz »

jevgeni wrote: post #55
alxlaz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. I have Win 10 Pro on my work laptop. It's very much "paid in full". Some of the things I paid in full for include Bubble Witch 3 Saga, Candy Crush Saga and Candy Crush Friends, and the Start menu came pre-populated with a bunch of ads for similarly useful apps (edit: among other things). Edit: if someone who's more Windows-savvy than this ol' Unix nerd knows what information I ought to edit out of a…

I also have Win 10 Pro and the maximum I had was, I think, "Install Minecraft" link or something. This is not like Win 10 Home where they tried to keep the ads coming. Which also makes sense, since you are getting a discounted OS. Going along that route, there is a lot of stuff a default Linux installation bundles, that I don't personally need, so I usually have to do a custom install to have only the stuff I'm comfo…

Who said anything about not catering exactly to my particular interests? You said a legit copy of Windows 10 Pro doesn't show ads. It does. I see them. Ads were some of the first things I saw after I installed it, and I still see them every once in a while. Even you seem to have seen one, even though you literally just said there aren't any.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#79

Post by timbit42 »

sys_64738 wrote: post #69
PeterStuer wrote: post #7

If you are not Internet connected during the install, the system will still offer you the option to proceed with the creation of a local account.

This is so wrong. I hope that this type of thing encourages people to look at the alternatives like GenToo or Arch Linux.

You mean it is wrong of Microsoft, not that the comment you replied to is wrong.

Re: Microsoft apparently removing ‘Offline Accounts’ for international Windows users

#80

Post by alxlaz »

_glsb wrote: post #77
alxlaz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy even when the "what about" thing doesn't get enough attention. If Ubuntu got more criticism on HN, would the ads you see on Windows become less intrusive, or more appropriate? But FWIW, Ubuntu absolutely got, and still gets, plenty of criticism for that, even here on HN.

Just like the "fallacy fallacy" is also a fallacy. That's not the point I'm debating. Whether I'm OK with product design choices of Microsoft is my own consumer decision. But what really is getting old, is the utterly predictable and abysmal level of discourse on this matter on HN, Reddit or wherever. My point is, that since the Internet has learned about whataboutism, it is being used to shut down any criticism of b…

I'm sorry but really none of this makes any sense to me.

How exactly did you reach the conclusion that "my actions don't really correspond to my words" based on how HN collectively treats Android? What actions are you talking about specifically? Using Android? I don't.

An how exactly does this post:

"I'm not sure how that's relevant here. Does my post say anything about what Ubuntu does being excusable in any way?"

follow this formula:

"Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."

My original reply said nothing about anything other than Windows, and my second post hinted that I think both Canonical and Microsoft are wrong in doing this. If I followed any formula, I'm pretty sure that's "neither A nor C should be doing B", which is as far removed from whataboutism as criticizing bias is removed from astroturfing.

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