Lots of comments about how "no one wants this".
But we already have things like Dropbox, Mega, Drive, iCloud where it makes complete sense for users.
Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
101–110 of 183 posts
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#102I was looking into Solid for a bit, but stopped as my concerns grew, must of which are expressed in other comments.
Recently I've been enamored with the Dat Protocol and the Beaker Browser. I like that it's a peer to peer protocol that uses local data storage. In addition, it makes it almost effortless to publish and scale a web application or site. It doesn't have Solid's strength in access control, but that's not to say that Dat's access control won't evolve. At this time, Dat's access control is very simple, basically share by link.
In addition, I would like to Linux handsets like Pinephone become better and more widely used.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How will I move let's say my data from superwiki to wikipedia? Your data is not on superwiki, but on your Pod. So you can connect Wikipedia to your Pod, see your data in their app, but it's still in your Pod, rather than having been moved. > Does wikipedia then have to somehow implement some import functionality? As follows from the previous answer: no, because the data never moves to Wikipedia. However: > Or Solid…
I understand data is not moving but if data structures are different there has to be some kinda merge or cloning of the data. So basically I am at Wikipedia and Superwiki's mercy for interoperability. What is the value of having(hosting my own data) if I cannot move. "unilaterally imitate the other's data model" sounds good at the beginning, but what will happen when superwiki is constantly evolving its data structur…
Correct, you are at the mercy that both Wikis are interoperable. But, each of the N actors can have its model and only agree on an abstraction, which the interoperability is based on. Let's assume an application provides a new feature, which deviates from the abstraction model. As an example, that feature could be of a "like" counter. The counter would then only be visible in a subset of application.
Since the underlying data structure is a graph, every application can attach arbitrary information to an node. But the application only retrieves the necessary bits. Furthermore, I think that apps must be able to handle missing bits to some extent.
I hope this is not confusing. If it helps, one could think of Solid to be the GraphQL endpoint, where the clients send queries expressed as SPARQL and only get back the requested bits of information.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#104I am very excited about Solid. That motivated me to write my thesis about a decentralised wiki, where Solid is its foundation. For further information, you can have a look at my work journal ( https://ma.parrillo.eu ).
I'm very excited about your thesis! It's great you found a topic that you love. Keep at it! Any chance we can get rss for that blog of yours? :)
Thank you very much. It is on my todo list :). I will add it tomorrow.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#105I wish them well. Problem with their approach is that their marketing pitch is all wrong. There is no demand for what they are selling because there is no value in what they are selling. The value comes from network effect and at the beginning there is no value, just cost. Mainstream users don't care and companies either don't care or don't like of that kind of talk. Inrupt should start with completely different sale…
I would go further and recommend two or three targeted websites.
Maybe one targeted at developers who would like to cater to a more security conscious market, small though that may be, and get some applications in the field.
Another site for the public focused more on what they can do, maybe promoting applications. I understand they want to get word out on their larger cause but it's just so abstract for most people. IMHO, get people using the apps built on the platform until the sharing of data between those apps becomes a compelling reason of its own.
Perhaps another targeted at the public in general that speaks in more concrete terms to advantages they can provide. This would be an uphill battle but things like the Target and Eqifax Brach clearly show the current model has problems.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#106As much as I like the idea (and the people behind it), I have an hard time seeing how this can succeed. The idea of pod reminds me of the self-hosting movement: people -including myself - host a bunch of services to avoid sharing fundamental data, like email, GPS-history or contacts. Still, "self-hosters" interact with all the big personal data hoarder out there (FB, Google, the many ad and tracking companies) which…
> the majority of internet users are oblivious to the data collection tactics employed by half the internet
I agree with this, but it's even worse: the majority of the remaining internet users who do have a clue about data collection, either don't care, or accept it as inevitable.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#107I was looking into Solid for a bit, but stopped as my concerns grew, must of which are expressed in other comments. Recently I've been enamored with the Dat Protocol and the Beaker Browser. I like that it's a peer to peer protocol that uses local data storage. In addition, it makes it almost effortless to publish and scale a web application or site. It doesn't have Solid's strength in access control, but that's not t…
I shared a little of your scepticism on Solid when I heard tali’s on it at the Distributed Web Conference about three years ago, but I wish the success.
Thanks for mentioning the Beaker Browser. I enjoyed playing with it in the past, and I will check it out again.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How will I move let's say my data from superwiki to wikipedia? Your data is not on superwiki, but on your Pod. So you can connect Wikipedia to your Pod, see your data in their app, but it's still in your Pod, rather than having been moved. > Does wikipedia then have to somehow implement some import functionality? As follows from the previous answer: no, because the data never moves to Wikipedia. However: > Or Solid…
I understand data is not moving but if data structures are different there has to be some kinda merge or cloning of the data. So basically I am at Wikipedia and Superwiki's mercy for interoperability. What is the value of having(hosting my own data) if I cannot move. "unilaterally imitate the other's data model" sounds good at the beginning, but what will happen when superwiki is constantly evolving its data structur…
> What is the value of having(hosting my own data) if I cannot move.
The value of having your own data is, precisely, that you have your own data; nothing more and no less.
Furthermore, and although I'm no expert in Solid's and other implementations, it's quite likely that you, or other technologists, can more easily help you achieve the interoperability you so desire if your data is not locked away behind thousand APIs and rate-limits; after all you do have your data in your pod. Think of Instagram, what if all your data was stored locally? Even if it was stored in a really messy JSON schema or whatever you can think of; it's still trivial to massage that data to import it into Wikimedia, or iterate through it and send it in batches to your email, or remove it, etc.
I'm not sure how solid plans to keep applications from stealthily generating derivatives of the data they manipulate. I can imagine some sort of separation would have to happen at the browser level where the "app" provides a scaffold and the browser replaces in your data.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#109I recently got introduced to a company called Polypoly. They are working on exactly the same, in the EU. They have an interesting setup as a collective. Users of the software automatically become members of the collective. The website talks of automatic partake in economic success. Curiously they also use the idea of self-hosted pods to hold the users private data and they even use the term 'pod' for this. When the f…
> thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. Now we have to fix our mistake because we're the only ones who have a chance at doing this.
SOME thought the web would bring those good things. Likewise 25 years later I see this initiative as fixing some issues, but technology is fundamentally neutral (some might say “chaotic neutral”) and cannot bring freedom, understanding and equality. Those things must be regained every day. But I am optimistic about our prospects.
Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me
#110The problem I have with these sort of initiatives is that they don't solve the real problem. Here's the thing: I want to own some of my data, but I don't want to own most of it, because it shouldn't be collected in the first place. Solid and other alike work in theory, but in practice I have some serious doubts. I believe that instead of owning your data is far much better to camouflage or destroy your data before it…
One positive aspect of Inrupt could be it would make it easier to clamp down on nefarious data overcollection because you’d actually be able to see all the data Google et al were collecting on you in the first place. Google Takeout exists, but Inrupt turns the tables and essentially makes Takeout the standardized real time default rather than an optional extra. It could be the foundation for new work to protect consu…
Hmm, I wonder about this. Consider that company A requests and is granted access to some of your data - what's to stop them selling that data on to company B?
Regulation could form part of the solution, but I'm wondering if anything can be done from a technical standpoint.