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Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

jarednelsen.dev

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Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#221

Post by banner2018 »

gavinray wrote: post #42

Is it really that rare that companies have legitimate hiring processes and realistic interviews? Take this with a grain of salt, because my experience may differ from many here (never worked at FAANG, I spent a lot of time at smaller startups in Boulder and am currently in Miami) but I have only been put in front of a whiteboard one time during many dozens of interviews and it was a generic logic puzzle to see how I…

Once my Mgr needed to reject a dev who had said something that did not vibe well with another manager, engaged the candidate in another round of tech interview with a L1 candidate who was working as a dev in the same team. (L1 is supposed to be a Mgr but worked as dev to sideline the immigration process). The candidate was asked offbeat Mockito unit test questions with the intention of rejecting. Speak of Hazing, some interviews are setup to reject candidates for the sake of rejecting.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#222

Post by klipklop »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #200
biztos wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a company where the interview process was basically "ask them about their experience, successes, and failures, and do whatever technical screen you feel works." Other than asking about failures (not everyone does) it was just "eh, wing it, tell us what you think." The hiring manager had to then weigh the responses and convince his/her manager if it was a go (we once rejected someone on ethical grounds aft…

> I worked at a company where the interview process was basically "ask them about their experience, successes, and failures, and do whatever technical screen you feel works." I'm part of another online community that has a strong emphasize on social justice issues. These "just wing it" hiring practices are one of their biggest complaints about tech companies. There's a perception that the less well-defined and struct…

The "standardized" interview at companies like Google has lead to them hiring mostly White/Asian males though... I have had plenty of people tell me that interviewing at Google is essentially a roll of the dice these days. You can answer all the 5x interviews in a satisfactory manner and still get rejected.

I feel "just wing it" can lead to somebody talented from a non-traditional background getting a chance at a great career that they would be auto-rejected by google at the resume submit phase.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#223

Post by Hydraulix989 »

qxtc wrote: post #49
winrid wrote: post #14

When I interviewed at Google for a front end position they didn't ask me a single CSS question. It was all algorithms and easy JavaScript questions. It was just really weird, like at least ask me how to center something. They bothered to ask me how I'd deal with diversity issues if I was in HR, though. I probably didn't get the job because of my answers there...

Ironic, because I work at Google and just found a bug caused by using percent-based border-radius CSS rules on a non-square element - something anyone with even intermediate CSS experience wouldn't write.

Is this because of the distortion (it's not a circle anymore)?

I work at FAANG as a backend engineer, and so I don't know this one either.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#224

Post by Swizec »

inertiatic wrote: post #128

I don't know, hiring seems inherently broken. Not just the algorithmic part, even the part leading up to it. You have to impress a recruiter or an HR drone by listing all the buzzwords that are currently trendy. Then, even after the algorithmic questions and interviews where you prove you can DO the job, you get rejected. Every company I've worked for had trouble hiring. I'm working for a company that also has troubl…

I see a lot of this at my day job. We've had positions open for over a year and somehow nobody makes it past the phone screen stage. The few that do make it to on-site interviews, we reject for one reason or another. Usually because they're okay but not great. We of course want great.

Sometimes we find a unicorn and want to make an offer. They get hired by FAANG after our interview and before we send the offer. Wonderful.

Contrast that to my side hustle where I sometimes hire folks to help out with coding so I can focus on other stuff.

Go into 1 or 2 Slack/Telegram groups "Hey anyone need work?"

Exchange 5 texts with 3 people.

"Okay here's a project, how much?"

Pick person. Get job done. If I like the way it goes, they get more jobs later.

Whole process from search to hire takes 1 week.

But at the dayjob we're a funded startup so we gotta be choosy and picky and make life all sorts of hard in the name of I'm not even sure what. We wouldn't even consider a part-time contractor because commitment is worth more than getting the job done.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#225

Post by Hydraulix989 »

monoideism wrote: post #171
sjc33 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but why is that a bad thing for engineers that are interviewing? If the interview process is largely memorizing 200 or so commonly asked algorithm questions and that is the gateway to a $200k+ job then it's a good thing for applicants, not "dystopian" at all. Again, it would be much, much more painful and time consuming for the interviewee if they were asked to code up some fullstack project for every interview.…

> the gateway to a $200k+ job then it's a good thing for applicants, For most of us outside the Bay Area and NYC, it's quite unlikely that we'll secure a $200k/year job unless we go into management.

What a misconception. I know plenty of people in Seattle, Austin, Los Angeles, and even Pittsburgh, pulling in $200k/year in tech.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#226

Post by lostlogin »

winrid wrote: post #201
vikasg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sour grapes, more like. If simply asking how they'd work with people from diverse backgrounds was triggering enough for this person, the process worked perfectly in rejecting them.

That wasn't the question... It was, if I was an HR director, what would I do in different situations.

I could be very wrong and am no HR expert, but I don’t think that question was actually about what would happen if you were an HR director. They wanted your thoughts on those situations in regards to the position you were apply for.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#227

Post by tomnj »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #183
ipnon wrote: post #66

What is tragic here is the amount of effort that is now expended by young computer scientists into the game of algorithms. Whereas a young programmer in the past may have spent their extra days writing games in Basic or static web pages, hackers these days seem to do Leetcode until the wheels come off. We are failing to bring certain softwares into existence by effectively requiring programmers to their effort into t…

> What is tragic here is the amount of effort that is now expended by young computer scientists into the game of algorithms. This is a funny topic to me. A decade ago, before Leetcode, Hackerrank, and Cracking The Coding Interview , it was common for developers to complain that software developers were losing touch with algorithmic knowledge. HN-type websites were full of discussions about clueless software engineers…

> Leetcode style systems are a lot of fun for people.

That’s not true for everyone, especially in such high stress situations as an interview. I like crosswords, but I wouldn’t want to do them in front of someone judging me for a job in 45 min while thinking aloud.

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#228

Post by BurningFrog »

inertiatic wrote: post #128

I don't know, hiring seems inherently broken. Not just the algorithmic part, even the part leading up to it. You have to impress a recruiter or an HR drone by listing all the buzzwords that are currently trendy. Then, even after the algorithmic questions and interviews where you prove you can DO the job, you get rejected. Every company I've worked for had trouble hiring. I'm working for a company that also has troubl…

The good way to hire is to recruit people someone has worked with before and can vouch for.

If you do good enough work at a job that your coworkers will want to work with you again, you've got it made and can choose between jobs for the rest of your career.

If you don't impress coworkers that way, you need to go through this crazy stranger interviews talked about here. Do try hard to avoid that!

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#229

Post by BurningFrog »

deanCommie wrote: post #43
winrid wrote: post #14

When I interviewed at Google for a front end position they didn't ask me a single CSS question. It was all algorithms and easy JavaScript questions. It was just really weird, like at least ask me how to center something. They bothered to ask me how I'd deal with diversity issues if I was in HR, though. I probably didn't get the job because of my answers there...

> They bothered to ask me how I'd deal with diversity issues if I was in HR, though. I probably didn't get the job because of my answers there... Strange postscript that suggests you hold some problematic opinions that indicate you can't play nicely with others? Did you fail to get the job because you didn't have the tech chops or is it because you said something wildly inappropriate on the behavioural questions? Wha…

This kind of question can be heard as a dogwhistle for

"Are you a leftist? We only hire leftists."

Re: Follow-up to “The dystopian world of software engineering interviews”

#230

Post by philjohn »

watwut wrote: post #88
philjohn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed a big one - giving them an idea of how you approach a problem and work through it. That's the biggest take away. If someone just spits out an optimal solution straight away that's not actually a great sign. It doesn't matter if you struggle a little, or need a few hints, but showing you know how to break a problem down into smaller sub-problems and work your way up is an invaluable signal.

This is incomprehensible for me. If someone happen to see your question before it is bad sign? And also, what exactly about my internal process are people trying to learn from "how I approach a problem and work through it"? I think I tend to make good impression on these ... but I am aware it is interview skill where I somehow picked up social signals I am supposed to send. I am adjusting what I am saying to how inte…

I’ve been in interviews where I’ve seen the problem before, and know the solution. I’ve always said so if that happens and the interviewer either continues and delves into why it’s an optimal solution, or switches to a different question.
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