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More bosses give four-day workweek a try

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Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#361
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Booking.com, TomTom GPS are both from Amsterdam. As is Adyen, the payments provider used Linkedin, Uber, Spotify, Microsoft. Philips is also from the Netherlands.

Are any of them on 4-day work week?

Most likely not. Contrary to what was being said, 40 hours is still very much the norm in The Netherlands. Some people choose to work less (36 or 32 hours is common), but that obviously also means less income.

Source: I'm from The Netherlands.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#362
post #72
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways to work around the system around metro hubs that tries to push you towards the standard of commuting 2 hours or more each day to get to a higher paying job, but you have to search for them and be flexible yourself in your search for a job that's flexible. These days, it's likely semi-remote work, where you commute 1-3 days a week or in off hours (part of day at home, part at work). For me, I've been lu…

> push you towards the standard of commuting 2 hours or more each day to get to a higher paying job Crazy question but why not invest some of that higher salary into quality of life improvements like moving closer to work?

School zones often play a part in the decision. With massive disparities in funding between even relatively close school zones where you live can have a large impact on your children. So often parents are forced to commute so that their kids can attend a good school. This is very unfortunate and likely a direct result of the way we fund schools in the US, but its reality for many.

One could of course argue that more time with their parents is crucial for the child as well and that is absolutely correct. My main concern though is that my kids are safe and well looked after during the time they are away from me though.

Now if I was a young single person, I would absolutely choose living in a studio a block from work over commuting an hour each way to a larger house in the suburbs. With kids other factors take precedence.

Now I am lucky enough to work remotely and it is indeed the 'bees knees'.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think economically it may make sense to hire fresh people for less money, burn them out and then have them leave soon. This may be one reason for ageism .

That may be why there is so much emphasis placed on dev frameworks like React, because you can get JS programmers right out of BootCamp onboarded fairly quickly (and cheaply). Also, there is a great deal of emphasis placed on process. If you will have new people taking over the code all the time, you should have a fairly strict requirement for patterns like MVVM and VIPER, and require new hires to be able to adapt to…

Don’t forget that large companies internally are very similar to a communist planned economy. They have five year plans and central planning. Everything flows from the top. They value predictability over everything else. So it makes sense to run everything like an assembly line where every position knows what they are supposed to do and can easily be trained. Only a few elite people get to work on the big picture and be creative. Personally I don’t like this but I’ll admit that it works.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#365
post #317
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's hard for some people (managers) to see a relaxed, happy person and believe that they're also totally productive. I don't blame them either; I feel like the image of overly-caffeinated, stressed-out people is embedded in our collective consciousness as representative of High Productivity and our lizard brains can't seem to be able to reconcile that with the data that is saying "relaxed people who mak…

If it works for chickens I don't see why it can't work for people. Companies could brand themselves as "Free Range" Happy workers lay nicer eggs!

A lot of companies brand themselves as “free range”. Just read some job ads and see how happy people are and how much fun they have at work. And like with “ free range eggs” you have to a very close look to see how true the claims are.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 5 years back, I went from 5 days a week to 4, taking a 20% paycut in the process. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made - it feels like I have so much more time for family, side projects and hobbies than I ever did before. And for reference, I work around 90% from home. TBH, the company I work for has got a pretty good deal out of this, as I'm sure my productivity hasn't dropped at all. (it's a mega…

It's a 20% paycut, but a 50% increase in free time! I'm doing the same thing btw, taking every Wednesday off and I love it - it breaks up the week and having the whole extra day for fun projects is totally worth the money to me.

Well put – 50% increase in free time. That's a very positive take on it. Depending on who you are that'll matter more or less, but to me that phrase is heart warming. 50% more time for the family, self care, catching up around the house. That sounds peaceful.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#367
post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

Seconding this, but particularly and especially for tasks that have to be done during normal business hours. If there's some issue I have that requires calling some customer service number, it often gets put off for days or even weeks before I manage to fit it in.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#368
post #32
post #15

Many of us work in spaces where servers are expected to be working and running 24/7. Yet our bosses still want every single employee to have butts in seats 9:00 am to 5 pm, 5 days a week and in the same time zone. Sometimes with a little guilt-tripping on the side for taking sick days and vacation. Wouldn't we be better off with several shifts, 4 days a week, covering Monday through Saturday or even the entire week?

Mature places have this with a global workforce. Not so mature places put 9-5ers on call with a tiny bump in pay.

My org has been around for over 150 years, and our IT department expects admins to take a rotating week of oncall. Not only are you expected on call with a 10 minutes response time, but you're expected to do your normal day to day operations/projects. And during normal business hours, a ton of extra stuff gets dumped into the lap of the oncall person, because why not?

My boss describes this as everyone's turn in the barrel, and part of working in IT. There's nothing more demoralizing for my coworkers than being on call. Well, maybe having our tickets be the metric we're evaluated by.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#369
post #357

I never understand these studies. I'm bootstrapping a startup and my work output scales linearly with hours until about 60 hours per week. 60 hours per week is comfortable with 4x12 hour days and then 12 hours over two shorter days. To accomplish errands and the like I just do things before 2pm which is plenty of time. For me personally more time working = more output. What am I missing? I should note that I have no…

I wonder what you do. There are plenty of things I could do for 12 hours, coding isn't one of them. Honestly, I'd say that I average about 6 hours a day of coding ability. That's an up to 4 hours before, because I changed a great deal of unhealthy habits.

It's roughly 9 hours of coding and 3 hours of brainstorming with my co-founder. I do notice that my focus wavers quite a bit. Meditation has helped with this to a certain extent.

Health is my first priority so I make sure I'm getting enough sleep and regular exercise. When I'm feeling particularly stressed I'll go to Banya. This helps prevent burnout.

I've also reduced the time it takes to do most everything. No commute, gym in home, no time for grocery shopping (Amazon Prime Now), no drinking, and I'm single.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be why there is so much emphasis placed on dev frameworks like React, because you can get JS programmers right out of BootCamp onboarded fairly quickly (and cheaply). Also, there is a great deal of emphasis placed on process. If you will have new people taking over the code all the time, you should have a fairly strict requirement for patterns like MVVM and VIPER, and require new hires to be able to adapt to…

Don’t forget that large companies internally are very similar to a communist planned economy. They have five year plans and central planning. Everything flows from the top. They value predictability over everything else. So it makes sense to run everything like an assembly line where every position knows what they are supposed to do and can easily be trained. Only a few elite people get to work on the big picture and…

It does work, but is not a particularly good approach for consumer (or even pro) software. You keep delivering yesterday's technology, tomorrow.

It's the kind of approach that you might use for space launch software, but even that can be iterated (as SpaceX is showing).

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