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Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

citylab.com

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Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#151

Post by CalRobert »

jackjeff wrote: post #139
oska wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it. > It’s hardly a win for air pollution Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollu…

Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles. Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inla…

Do you have a source?

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#152

Post by egypturnash »

wozniacki wrote: post #125
hk__2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, and improving the lives of those people is important but should never be detrimental to the Parisians themselves. For example, tourism means lots of Airbnb’d flats that are thus taken away from the people who could live there, and higher rents for those who can.

Your comment seems highly tone-deaf. Look at some of the comments above about pollution and what it has done to areas immediately outside of the city core.

I live in a high-tourism city that is not Paris and AirBNB severely reducing the amount of housing on the market is definitely a problem that high-tourism cities are having.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#153

Post by briandear »

yodsanklai wrote: post #41
mschuster91 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to opening times of stores, us Germans are way behind everybody else...

I wouldn't say "behind" in that context. I do appreciate the convenience of 24h stores, but I don't see them as a progress for workers rights.

If the owner of a store wants to open it for 24 hours and he or employees are willing to work, how is that bad for workers rights? What’s bad for workers rights are people that would like the freedom to work a late shift or early shift but can’t because some do-gooder is trying to “protect” grown adults from making their own decisions.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#154

Post by briandear »

progval wrote: post #131
mytailorisrich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France it's illegal for stores to have employees work at night and on Sunday afternoon. They are starting to go around this restriction by switching to self-checkout during those periods because, despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours.

> despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours. No, not really. According to [0], 61% of Frenchpeople consider this a step backward for workers, while 31% think it is necessary. Though the article implies the latter might be much higher in Paris. http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/ouverture-nocturne-des-maga...

What is so wrong with freedom? Why can’t workers decide if they want to work certain hours? Why is the choice made for them by government? You know what is also bad for workers? Unemployment, and in France it’s chronically high because of so much worrying about the “workers.”

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#155

Post by rsynnott »

carlob wrote: post #34

> In Paris, this isn’t necessarily such a tall order. The mayor oversees only the 2.2 million residents of the city’s heavily populated historic core, which already enjoys some of the use-mixing that the 15-minute-city concept encourages, thanks to its pre-industrial roots. This is the main problem of Paris and of Hidalgo. For most practical purposes Paris is a 10 million inhabitants city, yet only 2 get to vote for…

I think this is a problem with any disproportionately large city. But I’m not sure there’s a great solution, because the pseudo-Paris areas here presumably want their autonomy.

In Ireland, a country of under 5 million, all of the local authority decisions for the central bit of Dublin are made by Dublin City Council, which covers half a million people. But that’s largely an arbitrary distinction; the metropolitan area mostly covers three other local authorities and leaks into some others, and contains 1.5 million people. The only sign you have that you’ve wandered outside DCC in any direction is that the traffic lights are a bit different. And ‘greater Dublin’, which encompasses the adjacent local authorities, contains over 2 million. And that’s not the end of it; lots of people outside Greater Dublin commute in.

So, DCC makes decisions that impact at least 2 million people, but is elected by a population of 500k. I think there’s actually an argument for merging the four Dublin local authorities, but even that would be a political nightmare. Extending DCC to cover half the country is clearly not viable, and would not be accepted. But given that, it’s natural for DCC to care more about making the city work for people who live in its area and who vote for it than those commuting in from far away.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#156

Post by jackjeff »

oska wrote: post #141
jackjeff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles. Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inla…

Paris' greatest asset is its river, the Seine. Devoting a section of one of its two banks to a car highway is simply insane. If the city wants good uninterrupted travel East-West to replace that riverside highway it should build a tunnel.

It's obviously great if you live in Paris, especially when the weather is good. I have hanged out there many times in the summer even though I don't live in Paris anymore.

But if you're one of these commuters who has to drive, and use that specific east/west route, then it's an every day annoyance. You're reminded at every traffic light that your commute has increased by X minutes.

I think the solution is obviously to improve the public transport situation especially for far-away suburbs. But it's hard. It costs a lot, there are political animosities at play, and fundamentally Paris citizens do not really suffer from car commute issues since they don't need cars.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#157

Post by jackjeff »

CalRobert wrote: post #151
jackjeff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles. Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inla…

Do you have a source?

https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/213

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#158

Post by closeparen »

hk__2 wrote: post #113
lizknope wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is nothing illogical about it there is more to a city than just the people who live in it. Millions of people live in a suburb and commute to work in a larger city. Their employer pays taxes in that city. The employees eat lunch in that city. The city may be a tourist destination (Paris certainly is)

Of course, and improving the lives of those people is important but should never be detrimental to the Parisians themselves. For example, tourism means lots of Airbnb’d flats that are thus taken away from the people who could live there, and higher rents for those who can.

Of course, improving the lives of the poor is important but should never be detrimental to the rich themselves.

Why is this sentiment suddenly acceptable when it’s couched in terms of the real estate people can afford instead of their incomes directly?

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#159

Post by simonebrunozzi »

pi-err wrote: post #69

I live in Paris and whatever you think of the current mayor, this is pure marketing babble for the elections next month. Paris has always had this very dense city core where 99% of daily life is 5-10’ away. It’s a great concept for dense metropoles, but it only works because the city is so small: 100 square kilometers in an ocean of much lesser density. 80% of “Greater Parisians” live outside Paris itself. Unfortunat…

I agree with you, but don't know Paris well enough to know the exact details. How would you define the border of this "inner city" ?

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#160

Post by xkcd-sucks »

oska wrote: post #138
jackjeff wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is considered to be Paris (100km2) is a lot smaller than what people consider to be London (1500km2) or NYC (800km2 of land). Yes. If you’re rich enough and can afford to live in Paris everything is about 15mins away. If you leave “outside” then be ready for commutes that get proportionally cheaper as travel distance increase. A commute time of one hour or less is considered good. It’s not rare for people to com…

> And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it. > It’s hardly a win for air pollution Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollu…

Car emissions are negligible compared to scooter emissions though
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