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Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

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Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#271

Post by csharptwdec19 »

koolba wrote: post #8
jseliger wrote: post #3

I can't imagine buying or selling most high-value items on Amazon: the buying side has already been covered in various places ( https://seliger.com/2017/01/09/tools-continued-careful-buy-a... ). I've sold cameras and lenses on Craigslist, which can have its own challenges, but never one as expensive as an A7R IV.

At least on Craigslist you can restrict the sales to meatspace. Asking to meet on the steps of a police station does a great job of filtering out scammers.

Yep.

When I used to sell bikes/parts on CL, my rule was anything over 200$ I would only do in-person and locally (Besides, any full bikes in that price are probably too expensive to ship.)

And frankly, If it's something you have a hobby doing, you can wind up meeting some people who share your interests. When I sold a Mountain Bike to a guy we wound up meeting in front of a CVS and just shot the shit for a good half hour after the sale.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#272

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ikeboy wrote: post #148
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, my first thought is: contacting a buyer outside of Amazon is against Amazon's TOS. But if the author isn't interested in using Amazon after this incident, Amazon's TOS don't matter much. I'd be interested to hear from someone with a bit more legal knowledge how this might go. It's a good thought for sure.

Amazon takes the position that this counts as "soliciting payments from buyers outside of Amazon", which is prohibited by the ToS. See https://www.facebook.com/lalawgroup/posts/1719796444820559 My understanding is they sued the customer, Amazon stepped in to defend them, and they got a judgement against Amazon. But Amazon suspended their account in the meantime.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how is it not illegal to essentially try to subvert the court system by punishing the customer/seller for using it. If I worked into he judiciary, I would be very irate at Amazon trying to establish their own law.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#273

Post by ikeboy »

totalZero wrote: post #247
ikeboy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon may suspend your account for doing so. It happened in the case I linked at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22388122

Sure, but they're still the losers here. They lose a nonprofessional seller but also, there is a legal record of potentially unfair practices. Most companies don't want that kind of information out there.

Amazon has been in thousands of legal cases throughout the years. Nobody really cares. Besides, small claims cases don't really create a record.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#274

Post by ikeboy »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #258
ikeboy wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, because the team that sets policy is different from the team that makes the buttons. The policy has lots of exceptions - e.g. some categories can't be returned, like groceries. To disable that button, they'd have to check for all the exceptions and constantly update it whenever a policy changed. They did change to automatically approving returns a few years ago, but with an opt-out ability. My guess is eithe…

It seems like there's room for a confirmation/warning on the button, though. ("If this is a returnable product, accepting the return is mandatory." "Disputes occur at a different stage of the process.")

I'm not an active seller anymore so I can't check how it currently works. I believe it did show whether the return is in or out of policy. I'm also not sure if there's actually a deny return button, or only an accept button and an option to close the return (which you could if you resolved the issue without returning, which sellers are encouraged to do).

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#275

Post by nicolas_t »

AnssiH wrote: post #261
nicolas_t wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly about chargeback, I've noticed the same. I tried to file a chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid claim and me providing all the documentation for it. But, when I used my US credit card to file a chargeback it went through fine and there was no issue. I wonder if some countries are more lax with charge backs?

> I tried to file a chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid claim and me providing all the documentation for it. Was it a credit card or debit card? Debit cards often only provide limited chargeback capability (e.g. if your card is fraudulently used).

It was a credit card. The specific issue was that I bought a plane ticket on edreams and was supposed to get 100 euros discount which was shown on their webpage but I ended up paying the price without the discount and the email didn't show the discount either. Back then there was no 3d secure check, so I didn't get to confirm the amount until after it was debited.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#276

Post by Nextgrid »

dannyw wrote: post #264
Paul-ish wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if seller insurance is viable. Pay $50 for an item, company does a background check on the seller and maybe does escrow.

I sell on eBay, but I cancel purchases from buyers with dodgy reputations. If someone has been an eBay buyer since 2006 wih 240 positive buyer feedback and 0 negative; they're probably not going to defraud me.

When I tried to sell something on eBay I had plenty of scam messages from old, reputable-looking accounts. The accounts were presumably compromised.

Worse, eBay sent warning messages claiming that the accounts were suspected of being compromised, so the scum company knows it and still doesn’t block the accounts.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#277

Post by pxtail »

milankragujevic wrote: post #33

Similar thing happened to me with PayPal, buyer got to keep the item, and got a refund (by doing a chargeback on their CC) and I got billed the amount + 15% of fees and punishment. I provided exhausting proof of delivery and that there was no contact or complaints from the buyer, but they didn't care. They said, since it's a chargeback, they HAVE to give them their money back. The buyer was a client of Commonwealth B…

This is recurring theme with PayPal and some US citizens are perfectly aware that when it comes to dispute they'll get preferential treatment versus non-US based seller and money returned no matter what.

This mechanism is quite often used for frauds and unaware entrepreneurs can be robbed out of money - PayPal will refund money, close case without hesitation. I think that only solution would be to use court route but in some cases equipment cost may be lower than attorney and court related costs (in addition to seller not being used to procedures, not aware of what to do).

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#279

Post by astura »

csours wrote: post #19
CamelCaseName wrote: post #2

Wrong takeaway. If you're going to sell on Amazon, use FBA. A-z claims cannot be filed on FBA orders. If this is in fact your last sale on Amazon, and you no longer intend to do business with them, email Jeff@Amazon.com as a last resort. Keep in mind, that email should not be used lightly. Be succinct and stoic. Provide proof that you have done everything else to resolve the matter.

Can you use FBA for one-off, used items?

Yes

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#280

Post by birdyrooster »

birdyrooster wrote: post #134
qwertox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he contact the buyer outside of Amazon? He would go to the police to point out his issue with the buyer, there's absolutely no need to contact him outside of Amazon. I'd rather think that Amazon would be forthcoming in assisting any demands an investigation would make, like provide all the information regarding the seller and buyer on this issue to the police. Sure, it would be nice if Amazon would withhold…

Got a good laugh out of "He would go to the police to" and "provide all the information regarding the seller and buyer on this issue to the police" Thanks for that.

Ahh so parent comment wasn't sarcasm. Welp. Poe's law strikes again.
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