Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City' • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#131

Post by progval » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #61

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Parisian convenience stores close at night? Chinese urban convenience stores don't; even here in the American suburbs CVS is open 24 hours, and so is Safeway.

In France it's illegal for stores to have employees work at night and on Sunday afternoon. They are starting to go around this restriction by switching to self-checkout during those periods because, despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours.

> despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours.

No, not really.

According to [0], 61% of Frenchpeople consider this a step backward for workers, while 31% think it is necessary. Though the article implies the latter might be much higher in Paris.

http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/ouverture-nocturne-des-maga...

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#132

Post by wozniacki » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #44

tlear wrote: post #9

I am curious if the pickpockets still run rampant all over the tourist areas and subway. Few years back in 3 days: 1. Dad ran into undercover cop who on subway who told him to watch his stuff better :o 2. Got his phone stolen next day on subway, I guess cop was right 3. I witnessed the typical distract, grab and run.. good thing someone threw trip and got the runner to drop his prize 4. Had to deal with 3-4 typical:…

Put the valuable stuff into your trousers front pockets. I'm doing this for years, it works better than having anything in my back pockets. Though being 193cm tall might deter perps from trying something funny.

Perhaps insist on better law enforcement than blaming the victim. Pick-pocketing, by many accounts, is rampant in Paris and is just a sign of how lax policing is. Its not something to be even modestly indifferent about.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#133

Post by toohotatopic » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #82

toohotatopic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 1% interests rate, that's e12.000 a year, e1000 a month. Not bad.

A 25 year repayment mortgage with 0% interest is 4% a year (1/25).

After 25 years, the apartment is not worth nothing. People who ignore the bubble expect to sell the apartment after 25 years for the same price, or refinance with another mortgage. With some luck, the apartment is even worth more.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#134

Post by jackjeff » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

gnopgnip wrote: post #74

d--b wrote: post #51

It’s all an election stunt to try and justify that her war on cars won’t affect Parisians. Ie. If you have everything you need in a 15min walk, you shouldn’t suffer that the traffic is reduced. But the things you occasionally need are getting harder to get. Plumbers, electricians don’t want to come to the city anymore. They will facture in the awful traffic and the fines they get for the lack of parking space. Basica…

If everyone can get to what they need within 15 minutes, traffic as a whole would be greatly reduced

No. Because of the vast majority of people who work in Paris can’t afford to live there. And if you live in an area with terrible public transport (not uncommon far from the inner city and the first ring of surrounding suburbs) then you basically have no choice. It’s either you spend 3+hrs in public transport or 1.5hours in a car. Guess what people do....

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#135

Post by mytailorisrich » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

progval wrote: post #131

mytailorisrich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France it's illegal for stores to have employees work at night and on Sunday afternoon. They are starting to go around this restriction by switching to self-checkout during those periods because, despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours.

> despite what other commenters have said, people do want longer opening hours. No, not really. According to [0], 61% of Frenchpeople consider this a step backward for workers, while 31% think it is necessary. Though the article implies the latter might be much higher in Paris. http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/ouverture-nocturne-des-maga...

Shops and stores want to open because they know they have customers. Obviously night-time hours are more in demand in cities. That's all there is to it. People like to say something but do something else...

If 23%+ of people end up shopping during those time periods (since 77% say they don't outside Paris) then that's more than enough do say that people want longer opening hours.

Personally I think that shops open 7 days a week is very useful.

Let the market decides. The legal restrictions are paternalistic.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#136

Post by jackjeff » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #7

Proziam wrote: post #6

I wonder how many more jobs are needed to make this possible. You'd need more of everything, plus longer/staggered open hours (who decides what hours make the most sense, for which districts?). On the plus side, you'd have more convenience and less need for vehicle transit. On the potentially negative side, how many of these jobs would realistically pay a living wage?

She's just a politician trying to get reelected, don't expect too much out of this.

Most of Paris is basically like that already, and was before she was even mayor. Promising to the happy few who can live in Paris at 15mins while commuters from outside need >= 1hr. Turns out commuters don’t vote.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#137

Post by the_french » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:58 PM UTC

reyqn wrote: post #103

mikro2nd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much exactly what they're trying to do.

And that's not feasible. You can't just reduce the average commuting time to work by 40 minutes magically

The city / region has been working on that by decentralizing major government and business institutions. By pushing them out of the core in to neighboring suburbs it allows those employees a real chance at living near work in more than 15m2.

At the end of the day the only real solution to commutes / crowding is going to be spreading the load out on more communes and cities.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#138

Post by oska » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #120

pi-err wrote: post #69

I live in Paris and whatever you think of the current mayor, this is pure marketing babble for the elections next month. Paris has always had this very dense city core where 99% of daily life is 5-10’ away. It’s a great concept for dense metropoles, but it only works because the city is so small: 100 square kilometers in an ocean of much lesser density. 80% of “Greater Parisians” live outside Paris itself. Unfortunat…

What is considered to be Paris (100km2) is a lot smaller than what people consider to be London (1500km2) or NYC (800km2 of land). Yes. If you’re rich enough and can afford to live in Paris everything is about 15mins away. If you leave “outside” then be ready for commutes that get proportionally cheaper as travel distance increase. A commute time of one hour or less is considered good. It’s not rare for people to com…

> And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere.

Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it.

> It’s hardly a win for air pollution

Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollution as that is generally where traffic is most concentrated and thus air pollution levels are highest.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#139

Post by jackjeff » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

oska wrote: post #138

jackjeff wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is considered to be Paris (100km2) is a lot smaller than what people consider to be London (1500km2) or NYC (800km2 of land). Yes. If you’re rich enough and can afford to live in Paris everything is about 15mins away. If you leave “outside” then be ready for commutes that get proportionally cheaper as travel distance increase. A commute time of one hour or less is considered good. It’s not rare for people to com…

> And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it. > It’s hardly a win for air pollution Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollu…

Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles.

Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inland. So the pollution has reduced near the river, but increases on the East/West boulevards. It’s possible that traffic overall may have decreased, but the boulevards are full of intersection and traffic lights, whereas the river side highway was basically devoid of them. So overall for pollution, it’s really hard to see a win.

Re: Paris Mayor: It's Time for a '15-Minute City'

#140

Post by mytailorisrich » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #43

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Parisian convenience stores close at night? Chinese urban convenience stores don't; even here in the American suburbs CVS is open 24 hours, and so is Safeway.

I think you’re getting some resistance below because the answer to your first question is Yes. Not just “Yes, they close at night”, even. The entire American mentality revolves around everything being available all the time, so it’s really jarring to come over here and see the equivalent of a 7-Eleven closing for two hours at lunchtime, half of Saturday and all of Sunday and Monday, and calling it a night at 7 on oth…

> And it has been this way for forever, so it’s built into the culture at the DNA level.

It used to be that shops closed for lunch. Some still do and then complain that customers shop in shopping centres.

People want what is convenient. Evenings and weekends are convenient because people are busy during weekdays and stay-at-home wives is no longer a thing in many cases.

It's like McDonald's. The 'correct' thing to do is to complain about them and to look down on them, but McDonald's is actually very, very successful in France...