More bosses give four-day workweek a try • Hacker News Board

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#341

Post by boomlinde » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #283

devmunchies wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP growth is not indicative of a higher standard of living. It just means more things are part of the economy. If I grow my own food and play board games with my family, it doesn't boost the GDP. However, if I go to MacDonald's and then send my kids to daycare while I go to the movies (3 economic transactions), it increases the GDP since those services are now commoditized. Increasing the GDP might boost the standar…

"GDP growth is not indicative of a higher standard of living. " Whoa there, GDP is absolutely correlated to the standard of living, this is not contentious. That it's not a direct measure, true, but it's definitely 'a' measure. Moreover, growth or contraction in per-capita GDP in a nation is definitely correlated with increasing/reduced economic prosperity even in 'rich' countries. Yes, many things are 'not measured'…

Two macro economists are taking a walk in the park. They come across a pile of dog shit and one says to the other ”I’ll give you $500 if you eat that.” To his surprise, the other complies. The money is handed over. After a while more, they come across another turd. The dare is repeated, the other way around. One says to the other, ”you know I can’t help but feel like the only thing we got out of these transactions is that we’ve both eaten dog shit.” The other shakes his head and replies ”The GDP has gone up by $1000.”

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#342

Post by smrr723 » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 12:05 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #105

jonny_eh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people could take different "3rd" days off?

How do we decide who gets Friday or Monday (ie, a three day weekend)? I have a friend who once had M-W off, and worked the four remaining days. He hated it because his time off was completely misaligned with his peers, so he had no social life. Edit - I don't have any fundamental problem with working fewer hours or fewer days. But, I think I'd prefer 5x7 hour days instead of 4x8.

You have some sort of rota - half the office gets Mondays off on January, then in February, they're off on Fridays.

Having tried both, 4x8 is far better. I don't do much during 5x7 evenings anyway because I'm drained after 7 hours at work, so I'd much rather just cram that into 4 days and have an extra day of rest.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#343

Post by timwaagh » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 12:14 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #334

timwaagh wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawful workweek in nl is 40 hours I'd wager the others are similar, with perhaps one exception.

That's the 'normal maximum' in NL (overtime is also a thing). Plenty of people on part-time contracts working 32, 24 or even 20 hours per week.

Yes, we're the part-time champions of europe.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#344

Post by hylaride » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 12:34 PM UTC

alfonsodev wrote: post #332

kevindong wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting lifehack I hypothesized earlier this week and confirmed today is to work from home for the first hour or so of the day and then head into work after the morning rush has substantially subsided. Until today, I've typically gotten on the subway between 9:45am and 10am for my 30 minute commute to work (that's bed to desk travel time). The train usually wasn't packed, but I was certainly squeezed up agains…

I've done this in London where the tube can get impossible in peak hours, and it worked pretty well, although I ended up moving 30 minutes walk from the office to get 1 hour walk every day. The downside was a bit of back pain for carring the laptop on my backpack for one hour every day.

I had a similar problem with back pain. Invest in a good backpack that fits properly and try to minimize any other weight, including the backpack itself. I found a timbuk2 bag that worked for me, but go into a store and try one one with your laptop in it. You’ll feel the difference right away if it’s right.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#345

Post by jawns » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 12:40 PM UTC

NaOH wrote: post #263

Ididntdothis wrote: post #8

It seems a lot of these experiments are a success. But after a while somebody gets greedy and thinks “we get good productivity at 32 hours. I wonder how much more we could get at 40 hours?” And soon you are back at the old schedule. Something similar happened at my company. For once a project was ahead of schedule. So instead of thinking that the system worked well and keep working in relaxed manner management decide…

> For some people it’s hard to accept that relaxed people are productive. Just look at how U.S. culture treats service workers. We best be seated on time for our dinner reservation. No one should wait 15 minutes for their hotel check-in because housekeeping isn't done yet. Oh, and that coffee was ordered nearly 5 minutes ago. And the plumber was supposed to be here at 8. Your concerns about greed extend well beyond w…

All of those examples you offer sound like management issues rather than issues with the service people themselves.

If I make a dinner reservation, my expectation is that the restaurant knows what the crowd will be like at that time and has scheduled enough staff to handle it.

Similarly, if the plumbing company says the plumber will be here at 8, it is totally reasonable to expect him to be here by 8, or they shouldn't say he'll be here at 8. If there's too much uncertainty in his schedule to give a specific time, the company's scheduler should instead be giving blocks of time.

One example of treatment of service workers that actually does reflect their own performance rather than resource allocation / scheduling issues is expecting them to always be doing _something_. I used to work in retail, and if there were no customers in our department, heaven help us if our managers caught us just standing around chit-chatting. We needed to be wiping windows, no matter if we'd just wiped them an hour ago, or tidying stock, no matter if it was already in pristine condition. I see the same thing with restaurant waitstaff. Both management and customers expect to see them always on the move, even if their tables don't necessarily need anything at the moment.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#346

Post by balfirevic » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #274

glenneroo wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I seriously contemplated changing professions, so my boss allowed me to switch from full-time to 20 hours/week spread across 2-3 days. One immediate upside was that I only took a ~35% paycut due to being in a different tax bracket. As I dove deeper into my new career, I realized it wasn't for me, so I stayed at my old job... and now I can't imagine ever going back to full-time, as my quality of life h…

>One immediate upside was that I only took a ~35% paycut due to being in a different tax bracket. Are you in the US? If so, you can't save money on taxes by making less; it's a progressive system.

He didn't say he saved money by working less. He said he worked 50% less but only got 35% less money.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#347

Post by k__ » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

kuu wrote: post #80

k__ wrote: post #36

I'm from Germany and none of my friends works 40h anymore. They're all down to 50-80% This is even regulated by the law, your employer has to allow you to reduce your work time, only in some extreme cases they can deny it. Works like a charm.

Do you also get paid a 50-80%?

Yes, but since the taxes aren't linear (less pay equals less tax %) you usually end up with more money per hour.

Some of my friends even got an indirect raise out of it, because employers couldn't pay more, so they worked less for the same pay.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#348

Post by hkt » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

I'm just about to start a job where I'll be working 30 hours a week. This is nominally over 4 days, but I'll have the right to do it over three. I haven't been so excited about work in years, and I'm sure it'll be challenging but the rewards - time for hobbies, study, side projects and family - promise to be massive.

I was a pretty high earner before and have given up 60% of pay to do this. The premium I place on my time is huge. It'd be lovely to see more companies who understand this and offer the same kind of arrangement.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#349

Post by k__ » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #184

k__ wrote: post #36

I'm from Germany and none of my friends works 40h anymore. They're all down to 50-80% This is even regulated by the law, your employer has to allow you to reduce your work time, only in some extreme cases they can deny it. Works like a charm.

What about your pension or your company car? If you work an extra day in the week 100% of that money can go straight to your pension, giving you 10 years of early retirement.

Sure.

Either you get free time when you're young or you have to work longer.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#350

Post by balfirevic » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #340

burnte wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but that's you, lots of other folks like them, so we should have the choice.

There's nothing magical about other folks. They either have lots of slack time during the 10 hour days or their jobs aren't really that challenging.

Why would there be no folks that simply have higher mental endurance?

There are large differences between people regarding their strength, physical endurance and intelligence. Why not mental endurance?