It’s been over two years since Net Neutrality was repealed. I remember at the time there was a lot of talk about how the internet was going to be ruined by throttling, paid “fast lanes”, etc. Have any of these things happened? Or did that turn out to mostly be fear-mongering?
Fast lanes benefit established players at the expense of start ups. Consequently, if there has been detrimental effects, I doubt you would notice them. When you think to yourself, why do I put up with youtube, why isn't there an alternative... that's the 'thing happening'.
FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
101–110 of 169 posts
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
My main complaint is that Comcast gives no insight into how they calculate your usage beyond a generic bar graph. I was using steadily 600-700GB of data a month on my gigabit plan. It suddenly spiked to 2TB - from what I could tell there was no change in behavior, my ubiquiti gear wasn't showing this amount of usage. This went on and used up my two 'courtesy' months of overages forcing me to pay the extra money to re…
> My main complaint is that Comcast gives no insight into how they calculate your usage beyond a generic bar graph Fair enough - but also in fairness, your electric utility provides about as much (which is also frustrating when you're trying to figure out why your bill went up 25% one month). I personally run a mikrotik router which tracks my usage too, so I have a reference to double check against and could wage a g…
So do my water and gas companies.
My ISP provides the total I used in a month, at the end of the month. That's it.
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#103FYI: The deadline for comments is March 30, and the deadline for reply comments is April 29, (though it's not clear what the difference between comments and reply comments is). The FCC document (in all its legalistic glory) can be seen here: [1] And you can comment here: [2] [1] - https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-20-168A1.pdf [2] - https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
Nah, they wouldn't do anything like that...
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#104I must just live in a good area because I don’t understand why people still rally around this. In the past 10 years my home internet speed has gone from 15mb to 200mb with Charter/Spectrum without me paying another dime. They keep sending me free modem upgrades and there’s no fee attached. The service is good enough that I can stream 4 HD shows at the same time without an issue and internet based TV services are a vi…
NN is when you can't get to "Social Media Startup X" because they didn't pay your ISP.
You are unlikely to even notice this, because only newcomers would be required to pay ransom. Blocking existing sites would lead to customer complaints and actual competition.
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#105Would introducing competition for internet access at the residential level help prevent the type of consumer abuse that was predicted to happen? If Comcast is my only choice for broadband and there is no net neutrality, they can set whatever terms they want. If I have a choice between Comcast, three LEO internet providers, and four fixed wireless providers, Comcast loses its leverage.
The typical scenario is Comcast asking "startup X" for money to allow them to reach you.
You wouldn't have to pay more, nor would you necessarily notice: established sites would be exempt because customers expect them to work. But nobody will be missing a new company they have never heard of.
Since you will not (immediately) feel the impact, there will be no incentive for you to chose a different ISP.
Conversely, that startup doesn't get a choice: your ISP is the only route to get to you, and they have to pay or forfeit the chance to do business with you.
ISPs would be in a position to claim the vast majority of any internet-based business' profits. As a data-intensive startup, you would also be faced with the prospect of negotiating contracts with every single significant ISP. You'd get to make decisions such as "should we fire ten people, or go dark in Florida for the rest of the month?"
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#106FYI: The deadline for comments is March 30, and the deadline for reply comments is April 29, (though it's not clear what the difference between comments and reply comments is). The FCC document (in all its legalistic glory) can be seen here: [1] And you can comment here: [2] [1] - https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-20-168A1.pdf [2] - https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
Just as the commission has always held it was the responsibility and duty of all users of a particular part of the spectrum from intentionally or unintentionally interfering with any other legitimate users, the commission should make rulings that require that providers of Internet service (ISPs) shall not intentionally or unintentionally interfere with any legitimate use of the network bandwidth between the end user and the service provider communicating with that end user. Such policies of equal access for all legitimate uses has been a bedrock of FCC policy since the commission was established.
For people trying to fill out the form, use 17-108 as the proceeding you are commenting on.
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ISP's pay for ingress traffic What makes you think that? Most everyone will peer with residential ISPs for free. There have even been issues with residential ISPs trying to get paid for ingress traffic, because they control the only network path to their customers which means they can charge monopoly prices to video competitors like Netflix who want to send traffic to their users on that ISP. > so by setting a data…
> Most everyone will peer with residential ISPs for free Residential ISP's are typically Tier 3 or maybe Tier 2 providers, and have to get their bandwidth from either a Tier 2 or Tier 1 provider. These providers definitely charge for traffic to pass into the ISP's network (ingress traffic into an ISP network, egress out of the Tier 1 provider). Without paying that bill, ISP's couldn't exist... and without charging th…
You're thinking of the small dial-up ISPs from 20 years ago. The likes of Comcast and Verizon are themselves Tier 1 providers. The other Tier 1 providers' customers are predominantly data centers that want transit to the rest of the internet and aren't themselves (as e.g. Google is) Tier 1 networks.
> Tier 1 providers don't care about residential users. This argument doesn't make any sense.
Tier 1 providers sell transit to the whole internet, so they have to care about having a path to all users or their other customers will be displeased about not being able to reach those networks. The only path to users on Comcast is through Comcast, and there are enough of them that people will actually notice if they're missing.
> Comcast got away with charging Netflix for ingress traffic because comcast was going to drop or throttle Netflix traffic.
This is my point. They have the ability to drop or throttle Netflix traffic and there is nothing Netflix can do about it other than to pay them the danegeld, because they control the only network path to those users.
> Why? Because suddenly the $50 a month comcast was charging wasn't enough to cover the ingress traffic generated by Netflix content into the ISP's network. The decision was to either charge Comcast customers more, or ask Netflix to subsidize that added expense.
They didn't have to pay anything for ingress traffic from Netflix because their transit provider at the time was willing to peer with Comcast for free.
> This also led Netflix to create the Open Connect boxes they offer for free to ISP's.
Netflix was willing to offer them for free but Comcast wanted to be paid to use them. How does that make any sense if Comcast's problem was legitimately the amount they had to pay to other networks for ingress traffic?
> No, but they won't have their bill raised if the ISP can just charge the heavy users more instead.
There isn't anything there to raise the bill for since the additional usage has insignificant cost, and there aren't enough heavy users for that amortized amount to be real money on everybody else's bill even if it didn't.
> Comcast's argument was Netflix was making a ton of profit from streaming content they weren't helping pay to deliver - effectively shifting the delivery cost to the ISP, which was getting stuck with suddenly a bunch of unprofitable residential customers.
Each endpoint's ISP is responsible for carrying traffic to a mutually agreed upon peering exchange where it's handed off to the other endpoint's ISP. Netflix will basically peer with anybody at any peering exchange for free. Carrying the traffic from there to the other endpoint is what the customer is paying Comcast for. Comcast was double dipping, trying to get paid twice for carrying the same traffic. Or get an unfair advantage over a competitor for video services.
> A parallel would be making an ecommerce business and expecting packages to be delivered to customers for free.
A parallel would be Amazon paying FedEx to deliver packages and then discovering that Walmart had bought 20 million apartment units with doormen and was refusing to accept Amazon packages to the residents of those apartment buildings unless they paid Walmart for the privilege.
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#108Why won't the opponents of net neutrality do the same thing they did last time and just buy comments from ad-tech companies? Most comments last time (even the ones obviously programmatically added) were legit. Shell companies were created, those companies would buy "leads" from ad-tech companies. Those "leads" were names/emails of people who checked a box saying "I'm okay if you use my name and email to comment on th…
They are some of the biggest proponents of it because they don't want ISPs trying to charge them for transit to their users.
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#109FYI: The deadline for comments is March 30, and the deadline for reply comments is April 29, (though it's not clear what the difference between comments and reply comments is). The FCC document (in all its legalistic glory) can be seen here: [1] And you can comment here: [2] [1] - https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-20-168A1.pdf [2] - https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
I clicked on your second link and it took a while to load. Not wanting to seem like I'm putting on a tinfoil hat but what if the ISP's actually throttle the speeds to this specific site. Nah, they wouldn't do anything like that...
Re: FCC forced by court to ask the public again for feedback on net neutrality
#110I must just live in a good area because I don’t understand why people still rally around this. In the past 10 years my home internet speed has gone from 15mb to 200mb with Charter/Spectrum without me paying another dime. They keep sending me free modem upgrades and there’s no fee attached. The service is good enough that I can stream 4 HD shows at the same time without an issue and internet based TV services are a vi…
None of that has anything to do with NN. NN is when you can't get to "Social Media Startup X" because they didn't pay your ISP. You are unlikely to even notice this, because only newcomers would be required to pay ransom. Blocking existing sites would lead to customer complaints and actual competition.
That sounds bad! Any examples of that ever happening before or after NN?