Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#191

Post by TravelTechGuy » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:12 AM UTC

Sad story, though not uncommon. I heard many eBay horror stories involving buyers' scams.

Frankly, selling anything on Amazon is crazy. But if you do have to, vet your buyer. Look at their previous purchases and feedbacks. Avoid the quick deal that will blow in your face.

The bottom line is that eBay (and Amazon too) are more focused on the buyers. Buying on eBay is great, because you have 100% buyer protection. There's no seller protection at all.

I'd recommend sticking to either local selling apps (like Craigslist etc.) where you can verify the buyer (though stay safe and do it somewhere public), or through online communities that manage access and feedbacks (there are several on Reddit and Facebook).

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#192

Post by joshspankit » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

There’s one risk that seems to be being missed:

Fraud by delivery company staff. Someone might choose to risk their job for a verified $2k+ package. Moreso if they ended up with a truck full...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#193

Post by davchana » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:15 AM UTC

joshspankit wrote: post #185

kube-system wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. Who is going to pay for this service? I'm not going to pay for it as a buyer. If I file a claim on eBay or Amazon, they'll almost always side with me.

The seller is going to pay as they are the most likely to lose the money if the sale goes south. The smarter ones would increase the price to account for it (if possible).

Yes, agreed, it could be just another cost like shipping material, shipping charges etc. Seller pays and recoups it from the profit margin, just like any other expenses.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#194

Post by milankragujevic » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:18 AM UTC

Chinjut wrote: post #189

milankragujevic wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not copy and paste comments, only link to them instead, if on HN. See this comment by @dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22122334 (and similar comments - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ) * I know I don't have the authority to say this, I just want to be helpful.

To save you a click, what @dang says in the first link is: Please don't copy/paste comments on HN. It lowers the signal/noise ratio and makes for pain when we go to merge duplicate threads. If you want to refer to something you posted elsewhere, please use a link. Better still, when you see a split discussion, email hn@ycombinator.com so we can merge them. We'll make sure your comment ends up in the winning thread. h…

This one is more appropriate:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21668637

Please don't copy/paste comments here. It lowers signal/noise ratio and isn't good for conversation. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#195

Post by lukevdp » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:19 AM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #157

CamelCaseName wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost. The correct condition would be "Used - Like New" [0] The reason why this matters is because "New" items are grouped in a separate tab/link on the product detail page. Frankly speaking, selling anything other than sealed products in perfect conditions as "New" opens you up to misery. [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

I don't know, that page seems a bit ambiguous to me: > New: Just like it sounds. A brand-new, item. Original manufacturer's warranty, if any, still applies, with warranty details included in the listing comments. Original packaging is present for most New items but certain items like shoes may be re-boxed. > Used - Like New or Open Box: An item in perfect working condition. Original protective wrapping may be missing…

“New” explicitly states “Original packaging”. If he opened the original shrink wrap, it’s used.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#196

Post by laurentdc » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:21 AM UTC

Similar thing happened to me with eBay and PayPal. I sold a Marantz CD player, well packaged, took plenty of pictures. Buyer claimed that the RCA connectors were "slightly bent" (he refused to send pictures of that - but it's a normal thing, there's some PCB flex) and that there was a scratch on a certain side that I hadn't photographed, using this to imply that I wanted to hide the scratch.

I offered him to return the item even at my expense, he refused. He threatened of negative feedback, made a claim with PayPal and got half the amount back pretty much instantly, and kept the item of course.

Since this I've decided that when I don't need something anymore I'm just better off donating it or simply trashing it. Dealing with dishonest buyers and everyone siding with them by default is just not worth the hassle.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#197

Post by kderbyma » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:25 AM UTC

JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #64

ebaySucks123 wrote: post #28

I had the same exact experience the last time I sold on ebay, in 2017. I sold an $800 item. One day before the claim window closed, the buyer filed a claim saying it had never arrived and claiming they emailed me several times and I never responded. I submitted proof of delivery from UPS and pointed out the simple fact that I had received no messages from the buyer through ebay messaging. Ebay gave them a full refund…

I have a similar story. I sold a brand new iPhone to someone on eBay who claimed it was reported as stolen and was not able to be used. Paypal refunded the buyer, and allowed them to keep the phone. Paypal account went negative, their internal collections started calling every day right away even though it was in dispute. Even after providing proof that the IMEI was not reported as stolen, and them waiting weeks for…

I assume you reported the phone stolen afterwards correct?

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#198

Post by chooseaname » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #179

loeg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not any kind of lawyer but my guess is you could get a default judgement and then employ some sort of bounty hunter to attempt to collect on them.

As a lawyer, default judgment for sure, but no one is sending out bounty hunters for small claims court. In fact, the courts tend to not get involved at all. You, the plaintiff, would be given the means to prove the judgment has been entered, but then it's kind of up to you to have it enforced. Luckily, you can generally count on the assistance of a Sheriff's office, but often the approach is some sort of wage garnis…

Wouldn't a default judgement show up when they try to rent something or buy something on credit? I mean if nothing else, at least their life would be a little less comfortable.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#199

Post by Aeolun » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #150

jfim wrote: post #4

Wouldn't that be a good small claims court case? There's good documentation that the item has been shipped, and the seller is out of both the money and the camera.

Amazon may suspend your account for doing so. It happened in the case I linked at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22388122

If you are already not planning to use them any more, maybe not much of a problem?

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#200

Post by city41 » Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

TravelTechGuy wrote: post #191

Sad story, though not uncommon. I heard many eBay horror stories involving buyers' scams. Frankly, selling anything on Amazon is crazy. But if you do have to, vet your buyer. Look at their previous purchases and feedbacks. Avoid the quick deal that will blow in your face. The bottom line is that eBay (and Amazon too) are more focused on the buyers. Buying on eBay is great, because you have 100% buyer protection. Ther…

I was surprised the article mentioned eBay as a better alternative as a seller. It really isn’t, eBay will side with the buyer pretty much every time.