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More bosses give four-day workweek a try

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Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#171

Post by david-gpu »

mjayhn wrote: post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

> Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues

This seems to conflate working from home with having time off. Is your employer paying you to work on that day or not?

I work four days a week (30 hours). On my days off, I do not work at all. On my days on, I do not do random house chores during office hours. That's what my employer and I agreed to, and I think it describes what most people understand as a four day workweek.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#172

Post by kempbellt »

tombert wrote: post #37
volkk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know not everyone is as sapped for energy as I am after work, but I leave work and sit in an hour of traffic. My energy is just sapped from me by the time I make it home. I have enough energy to feed myself and sometimes work out to maintain my health.. I know that some people just dont have the privilege of living close to their jobs, but after spending one internship getting up at 5;45am to drive with my dad to…

I live in NYC, and I have a roughly 1 hour commute each way, but I just take the train everywhere. Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but I find that taking a train to work is a lot less stressful than driving every day. At least on the train, I can read, or pull out my laptop, or just play a video game.

I had the same experience when I lived in NYC. A 45 minute commute on the subway was a lot less stressful than the 45 minute bumper-to-bumper driving commute I do now (in Seattle). I would usually play mindless puzzle games and listen to music on my commute. Other people mention the train delays being stressful, but my company had a standing "subway delays ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" attitude about showing up late. People would show up between 9:30 and 10:30

I don't ever recall feeling comfortable pulling out a laptop on the train though. Not even for fear of someone stealing it. I'd be worried about a subway monkey doing some spinning dance move and destroying the screen, or some hipster spilling coffee on it when the train slows down. Fond memories...

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#173

Post by senderista »

cortesoft wrote: post #63
mjayhn wrote: post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

It is an especially big deal for working parents... having a day when kids are at school/daycare to do chores and errands is huge... so many things are impossible to do when you are chasing kids around. I get way more done on a weekday home than a weekend.

This. I literally cannot get anything done on the weekends unless the inlaws stay over to look after our 2 toddlers. As the kids get older I'm sure it'll get easier.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#174

Post by techslave »

standardUser wrote: post #60
kody wrote: post #13

I worked 4x10s when I worked for the Army and it was awesome. 3 day weekends take off so much pressure, and come Sunday night I was starting to feel the itch to get back into work rather than the dreadful feeling that I 'wasted' my weekend. The only work experience that was better than this was 100% flexibility to work remotely and/or flex hours. So there's my anecdata for you :)

10 hours really seems extreme. I am certain that the vast majority of office workers could produce the same level of output at a 4x9 schedule as they do in a 5x8 or would in a 4x10. And most would be profoundly happier people.

really? HN crowd is talking about 10 hr days as “exhausting” ? i can’t remember the last time i worked less than 5x10.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#175

Post by monknomo »

clSTophEjUdRanu wrote: post #52
tombert wrote: post #33

I remember when I interned at Lockheed Martin forever ago, they had a system where you normally work 9-hour days (8 on Fridays), and as a result had every other Friday off. It equated to a 80 hours for every two weeks, and it was really nice if you ever had to go to the bank or DMV (which are typically only open during weekdays). I always wondered why this wasn't more popular.

Why is this so common in defense?

It's a standard federal employee option. They pretty often get straight 8s, 5-7-9 or 4x10s as they possible schedule options

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#176

Post by tempestn »

lwb wrote: post #133

Something felt fishy about their claim that number of hours worked has been climbing in the United States so I checked their source. It turns out that "average annual hours worked" has changed from 1,780 in 2011 to 1,786 last year. This seems like barely a rounding error... On the other hand, if you look at the FRED website it shows that average annual hours worked has massively decreased in the last 50 years: https:…

Does this include part-time workers? If so, the slight increase since 2011 could just be a reflection of the lower unemployment and underemployment.

Actually even if it's only considering full-time employees, it could still be related to unemployment, since a tighter labor market would leave more positions unfilled, which would mean more overtime.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#177

Post by dcre »

lwb wrote: post #133

Something felt fishy about their claim that number of hours worked has been climbing in the United States so I checked their source. It turns out that "average annual hours worked" has changed from 1,780 in 2011 to 1,786 last year. This seems like barely a rounding error... On the other hand, if you look at the FRED website it shows that average annual hours worked has massively decreased in the last 50 years: https:…

The overall average per person has declined (though not really since the 80s). However, in the same time frame, the proportion of women in formal work went from 35% to 60% [1]. So the story for men and women looks very different. Note also that for women this is a shift from domestic labor to formal labor, so it's probably not much of an increase in hours worked even though it looks like that on paper. However, in the same time frame, I believe men spend a bit more time on housework than they used to, which is not included in formal hours worked.

The point of all this is simply that it is difficult to make conclusions about labor market trends from average annual hours worked.

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300002

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#178

Post by systemtest »

mjayhn wrote: post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

I did it a bit different. For 2020, working four days gives me 204 workable days per year. Working five days gives me 255 workable days per year.

What I do is that I work five days a week and around June-July I take ten weeks off. I have the same amount of working days per year with the same income but it feels like a godsend to have a yearly sabbatical of over 2 months during the best weather of the year. It reminds me of being in school again with the long summer holidays.

If I ever have children that means being with them for six weeks fully dedicated to them.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#179

Post by TrueGeek »

echelon wrote: post #58
amyjess wrote: post #27

Going down to a 32-hour workweek would be lovely, but I'm simply not interested in doing 4×10. I'd rather get home at a decent hour than have an extra day off.

To each their own. My work week is spent on work and I can't really enjoy the time before or after work. I'll never enjoy M-F. I'd rather have a 4x10 than a 5x8. If my side hustle ever graduates into a startup and I start hiring other people, we're doing 4x10 or 4x9.

Why not let your employees choose? From what I’ve seen single people love 4x10, people with kids don’t. 2 extra hours a day means my kid can’t possibly make it to practice in time 4 days a week.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#180

Post by notJim »

lwb wrote: post #133

Something felt fishy about their claim that number of hours worked has been climbing in the United States so I checked their source. It turns out that "average annual hours worked" has changed from 1,780 in 2011 to 1,786 last year. This seems like barely a rounding error... On the other hand, if you look at the FRED website it shows that average annual hours worked has massively decreased in the last 50 years: https:…

I was curious for context on this, and honestly didn't find much in my brief search, but apparently it's thought that for professionals, the hours worked has gone up, while for the working class, it has gone down. I didn't research it, but I wonder if part of the explanation is that working class people tend to be under-employed, and/or government policies that kick in at say, 30 hours / week (like the ACA, for example) push the numbers down. Professionals of course tend to be salaried, so you really want to squeeze out as much as you can.
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