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More bosses give four-day workweek a try

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Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#141

Post by burnte »

alistairSH wrote: post #111
burnte wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people I know who can do four 10s love it, and find the 10 hour days aren't really much different then the 8s. I'd love it if I could do four 10s, but in a company that does 24/7 healthcare, that's not an option for support staff like IT, not even at my level.

The issue with 4x10s is those days are exhausting - they leave me with no energy to do anything else that day. At least with 5x8, most days I can get out for a bike ride after work, or take my dog for a long walk. 10 hours? It doesn't happen, I go home and flop on the sofa.

Right, but that's you, lots of other folks like them, so we should have the choice.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#142

Post by chadlavi »

amyjess wrote: post #27

Going down to a 32-hour workweek would be lovely, but I'm simply not interested in doing 4×10. I'd rather get home at a decent hour than have an extra day off.

As knowledge workers (I'm assuming), I feel strongly that the number of hours we spend at work has little correlation to the amount of value we deliver. I could easily get the same amount of value delivered in 4 7-hour days that I currently do in 5 8-ish hour ones. I'm only forced to hang out at work for a certain set of hours because of... tradition I guess?

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#143

Post by ausbah »

"Natalie Nagele, co-founder and CEO of Wildbit, has heard from other leaders who say it didn't work for them. She says it fails when employees aren't motivated and where managers don't trust employees."

I would muse that employees usually aren't motivated because they hate their working conditions, usually imposed by shitty managers / company cultures. Managers & companies may complain about "unproductive" or "motivated" employees as if its some personal failing of their employees, but news flash people aren't going to care unless they have a reason to care. If you want employees to enjoy their work and actually be motivated to some degree greater than the bare minimum, give them working conditions that they enjoy. Give them retirement benefits, less working hours, less micromanagement, more pay, remote working options, etc.

This is a problem that stems from crappy notions of how work cultures "ought to be" in America, and can only be solved by destroying those notions and getting rid of the idea "productivity above all else" in companies.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#144

Post by chadlavi »

jt2190 wrote: post #88

Counter-point, from the article: > Natalie Nagele, co-founder and CEO of Wildbit, has heard from other leaders who say it didn't work for them. She says it fails when employees aren't motivated and where managers don't trust employees. Also it would be good to keep in mind the Hawthorne Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect#History

> it fails when employees aren't motivated and where managers don't trust employees

I'd counter that _anything_ (including the standard 5x8 schedule) will fail in those conditions.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#145

Post by lwb »

chadlavi wrote: post #136
lwb wrote: post #133

Something felt fishy about their claim that number of hours worked has been climbing in the United States so I checked their source. It turns out that "average annual hours worked" has changed from 1,780 in 2011 to 1,786 last year. This seems like barely a rounding error... On the other hand, if you look at the FRED website it shows that average annual hours worked has massively decreased in the last 50 years: https:…

these numbers are across all industries, right? a 40 hour union job has certain parameters such that the work hours aren't going to shift much without larger political shifts within those orgs. But I suspect the number of hours a non-union knowledge worker works per year has gone up in the same time frame.

> these numbers are across all industries, right?

I think so. The way these sources gather data is somewhat opaque to me but there's nothing to suggest that it's filtered out by industry.

> I suspect the number of hours a non-union knowledge worker works per year has gone up in the same time frame

Huh... I don't see that data anywhere on FRED but it would be interesting to know. You can search for yourself here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/searchresults/?st=hours%20worked

Anecdotally, I have swapped stories with my father in law who started his career as a finance worker for a large corporation in the 1980s and he worked significantly more hours than I have at any of my current or previous jobs. 10+ hours 5 days a week was the expectation, plus an hour commute both ways... hard to say if that generalizes in any meaningful way though.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#146

Post by fjp »

volkk wrote: post #31
mjayhn wrote: post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

> I know not everyone is as sapped for energy as I am after work, but I leave work and sit in an hour of traffic. My energy is just sapped from me by the time I make it home. I have enough energy to feed myself and sometimes work out to maintain my health.. I know that some people just dont have the privilege of living close to their jobs, but after spending one internship getting up at 5;45am to drive with my dad to…

Agreed, the one thing I have promised myself is to never have a commute over 35 minutes. I even found a 35 minute commute to an internship in the suburbs disheartening when it was mostly spent sitting in traffic.

It's insane to waste that much of your daily life shuttling to your job (if you have an option, which I hope to remain lucky enough to have).

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#147

Post by elicash »

rverghese wrote: post #42
mjayhn wrote: post #18

I can't begin to explain how much less stress I encounter in day to day life having just one week day to stay home. Just having a day to be able to easily knock out chores between Jira issues; drop the car off at the dealer, sell something on craigslist, complete a house project, go to the dentist, meet the handyman, go to the bank, etc is so nice. All of these things wind up on the back burner when I'm in the middle…

But doesn't this rely on everyone else working 5 days? If everyone had a 4-week, it would be just like the current weekend. You can't go to the bank or dentist, because they would also be off. Perhaps you could get the same effect and quality of life by taking Sunday and Monday as your days off and working Saturday.

Another example:

My dad is a letter carrier. He's off Sunday and then has a floating day off that changes each week. (Scheduled far in advance.)

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#148

Post by echelon »

wobblykiwi wrote: post #130
echelon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own. My work week is spent on work and I can't really enjoy the time before or after work. I'll never enjoy M-F. I'd rather have a 4x10 than a 5x8. If my side hustle ever graduates into a startup and I start hiring other people, we're doing 4x10 or 4x9.

Why not try a 4x8?

Maybe so. And it might make it easier to offer as a perk when I can't offer a salary that competes with Google and Facebook.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#149

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tombert wrote: post #120
wpasc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what GP meant but in NYC I find NJ Transit, Metro North, LIRR style to be much more relaxing and reliable. Subway is just a different beast

I take the Subway virtually every day. On weekdays it's not perfect, but generally good-enough.

To some extent it likely depends on which subway you're on. Some lines are rough, especially at the outskirts.

But I agree. For all that New Yorkers complain about the subway, it's my favorite thing about New York.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#150

Post by bumby »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #107
cortesoft wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an especially big deal for working parents... having a day when kids are at school/daycare to do chores and errands is huge... so many things are impossible to do when you are chasing kids around. I get way more done on a weekday home than a weekend.

how about single working adults? I have to literally take off of work to go to the DMV.

Isn’t that the case for everyone working a standard 5 day week, single, kids, or not?
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