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Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

greece.greekreporter.com

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Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#11

Post by koolba »

phlipski wrote: post #8

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. All citizens deserve to know what their politicians are saying behind closed doors.

That type of blanket statement is a great example of theory vs. practice.

In theory you’d want everything to be public in the interest of informing your populace.

In practice that’s nonsense. There’s genuine national security concerns, forthright debate of alternatives by advisors, and discussions of limits on negotiating positions.

Earring on the side of transparency is a good idea but there’s a whole lot in government that should never, and will never, be public.

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#12

Post by [deleted] »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

[deleted]

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#13

Post by jokoon »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

Amputating a limb or surviving chemotherapy is hardly a success story, especially when the operation is hardly over yet.

What happened to greece was a disaster. Of course it required to be handled by adults, and they did what was necessary. But the whole thing is hardly "a success story".

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#14

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

do you live in greece by chance? I don't, but the friends I have there don't consider it a success story. Maybe it is nice they got a surplus now (after 10 years!) but during those 10 years a lot of suffering and pain to their population. Even the IMF has admitted it was a bad prescription (1)

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-22791248

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#15

Post by alexsideris »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

> It's a success story.

Haha! That was a good one.

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#16

Post by tasubotadas »

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #6
tasubotadas wrote: post #4

That's a really shitty move. >a USB of the conversations he had secretly recorded while attending a Eurogroup discussion in Brussels People in private converse completely differently (more freely) than in public. Judging people on what they said there by a public standard (it's impossible that this will not happen) is extremely unfair. Especially since Varoufakis knew that he will be recorded, he has probably chosen…

While what you say is true, the contents of these meetings should be public knowledge. A lot of citizens of a few countries had their lives almost destroyed by the decisions of these politicians, so is only fair they know what was discussed, who defended them, etc. Let us not forget the pressure the ECB (and other european institutions) put on some countries that have come to light after the fact. (Like only allowing…

Well, I kinda do not like Varoufakis, because he came off as an entitled know-it-all prick (a not so rare trait in academia).

He made lots of bold claims but in the end, nothing really got accomplished.

EDIT: Regarding the fact that the public deserves to know, I disagree. The public can act completely irrationally against its own interests under FUD (I guess we have some recent examples from the UK and the US), and in a lot of cases, they are better off not knowing. That's why you elect representatives (that will get into all the details of the problem) and place your trust in them. If you do not trust you representatives - do not elect them.

[1] https://www.cityam.com/greece-s-golden-boy-and-his-tragic-fa...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U4U7M4WOPU

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#17

Post by jnmandal »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

Na malaka

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#18

Post by cm2187 »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

Or a dog who doesn't understand why the vet tortures him!

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#19

Post by CarelessExpert »

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #6
tasubotadas wrote: post #4

That's a really shitty move. >a USB of the conversations he had secretly recorded while attending a Eurogroup discussion in Brussels People in private converse completely differently (more freely) than in public. Judging people on what they said there by a public standard (it's impossible that this will not happen) is extremely unfair. Especially since Varoufakis knew that he will be recorded, he has probably chosen…

While what you say is true, the contents of these meetings should be public knowledge. A lot of citizens of a few countries had their lives almost destroyed by the decisions of these politicians, so is only fair they know what was discussed, who defended them, etc. Let us not forget the pressure the ECB (and other european institutions) put on some countries that have come to light after the fact. (Like only allowing…

> While what you say is true, the contents of these meetings should be public knowledge.

I honestly don't think it's that simple.

While decisions should always be public, in order to come to reasonable compromises on issues, it can be valuable for leaders to be able to have closed-door conversations outside of the spotlight, where they don't have to engage in political grandstanding; after all, it's that kind of compromise that allows democratic systems to function.

In fact, I would make the claim that at least one reason why the US democratic system has become so utterly paralyzed by polarization is because so much of political debate is now happening in the spotlight of social media, instead of behind closed doors where politicians can have the more nuanced conversations that might displease an electorate that is too busy cheering for their team to worry about actually getting anything done.

That's not to say this isn't without peril. Behind closed doors, corruption might happen as easily as compromise. I'm just not convinced the risks outweighs the benefits.

Re: Varoufakis to Publish Notorious Eurogroup Recordings from 2015 Meetings

#20

Post by wfn »

tasubotadas wrote: post #10
ninjamayo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happened afterwards to Greece is also pretty shitty

What happened? It's a success story. I get that people do not like the fact that they can't retire now at 55yo or that they had to privatize a few big national companies, but I think it's a perfect example where the doctor knows better than the patient what's best for them.

What success story. The structural effects of the austerity which everyone including IMF admits was much too hard on GDP will be felt, and Greece will be screwed for many years to come. See for example wiki article, e.g. section "Effects of applied programmes on the severity of the debt crisis and the IMF's apology": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis#E...
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