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Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

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Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#91

Please send me a link of someone that watched the original Star Wars, the later trilogy and finally the last “attempt” and really appreciated it. I even watched “Rogue One” in the biggest screen available around me, with high expectations, and I’m feeling really sad because of that.

I am over 80, I have watched them all, and enjoyed them all. What few criticisms I had were lost in the overall enjoyment of all that good work. What we do now makes those early shows look crude - which they are by modern standards, but in the day OOOOHHH, AAAHHHH. I still recall the first Star Wars crawl and it makes me shiver - I guess that's why they still use it...

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#92
post #61

Hi all, really cool that you have taken an interest in this project, a lot of your comments below are very insightful and interesting. I work on the team that deploys this tech on set. We focus on how the video signals get from the video output servers to the LED surfaces, coordinating how we deal with tracking methods, photogrammetry, signal delivery, operator controls and the infrastructure that supports all of thi…

Thanks! This work is really inspiring! Are these OLED screens, matrices of separate LEDs of the usual InGaAs and GaN type, or LCDs backlit with LEDs? The 2.84 mm pixel pitch makes it sound like it's separate inorganic LEDs. Are there times short of sunshine where you need more directionality to the lighting than the screens can provide? Because the screens can emit from any direction but not toward any direction, bei…

Discrete LED screens go all the way down to 2mm or even 1.9mm pitch (I have a few 2mm tiles at home). These are certainly discrete LED panels, not OLEDs. I'm not aware of OLEDs being used in "wall" applications like this.

When you hear LED walls, think millions of discrete LEDs mounted on PCBs (and thank China for making this low cost enough to be viable!)

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#93
post #62

Hi all, really cool that you have taken an interest in this project, a lot of your comments below are very insightful and interesting. I work on the team that deploys this tech on set. We focus on how the video signals get from the video output servers to the LED surfaces, coordinating how we deal with tracking methods, photogrammetry, signal delivery, operator controls and the infrastructure that supports all of thi…

Great work! It must be a tremendously interesting job. You might be able to answer my question which is: why use exclusively LED and no projector? I imagine that it's mainly because it's too dim and the main goal is to get good reflections. Is that something that was considered? (I'm wondering as I found the work of teamLab very impressive, which rely heavily on projectors: https://www.teamlab.art/ )

How fast are the refresh rates on projector lighting? A really cheap consumer LED can get anywhere from a few hundred Hz to tens of kHz depending on the LED and connection topology, enough to synchronize with high speed cameras with short exposure times and other equipment.

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#94

Please send me a link of someone that watched the original Star Wars, the later trilogy and finally the last “attempt” and really appreciated it. I even watched “Rogue One” in the biggest screen available around me, with high expectations, and I’m feeling really sad because of that.

I've seen all of them, and loved all of them.

To me, most of the criticism feels like it comes from people who have had time to rationalize the old plots and settings, but who see the new ones with a more jaded mind or a set idea of what they "should" be like instead of approaching them with an open mind. They have flaws, but so does the original trilogy.

Star Wars from the beginning were silly westerns set in space with all kinds of ridiculous aliens thrown in. Taking them too seriously and applying that as a constraint on the following trilogies would never end well.

When people complained about Jar Jar, for example, all I could think about was how people could take issue with Jar Jar but take no issue with Chewbacca, or the ewoks, or R2D2 and C3PO. They're also incredibly cheesy in other ways in a way that was common in the 80's, but that is really dated today (e.g. the Ewok celebration scene).

I think seeing e.g. Spaceballs is a good way of having it driven home how just how ridiculous Star Wars really is and looked at the time if you don't let yourself be immersed in it. Spaceballs crosses the line from "serious" space opera to comedy very clearly, but it to me it also illustrates just how ridiculous lengths they had to go to in order to clearly be a send-up instead of a cheap Star Wars knockoff. They'd not had to cut that many jokes and toned back that many things before it'd have seemed like an attempt at being serious.

Star Wars is fun in part because it manages to "sell" a setting that is on the face of it so crazy and not taking itself too seriously. But it seems a lot of the fans of the original trilogy bought into that and then decided to take it all very seriously instead of seeing them as light adventure movies and "space westerns".

The challenge is also in no large part a question of changing tastes in other ways as well - my son finds the original trilogy horribly slow moving to the point of boredom, for example, and I can understand that. Tastes have changed. Pacing has changed. Composition and cinematography has changed. But that also means that the modern trilogies had to be very different or fall flat with younger audiences in ways that would always annoy the die hard fans; they're trying to reflect how we remember them more than how they are, but different people remember them in different ways.

[I tend to treat criticism of the last Indiana Jones in much the same way; people venerate the original movies, but they were extremely cheesy and contrived, involving literal deus ex machina, but surviving a test explosion in a fridge and interdimensional aliens is suddenly over the top]

As for Rogue One, to me it's one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. In no small part because they were allowed to explore the setting with much more freedom (ok to let characters more central to the plot die for example).

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#95
post #37

I wonder how the photogrammetry aspect will intersect with intellectual property laws. The example used - scanning in a Santa Monica bar so that you can do reshoots without revisiting the location - would be an obvious example that might raise someone's hackles ("because it's our bar you're using to make your money" for instance). If you add that bar to your digital library, do you have to pay them royalties each tim…

A potential analogy might be something like using Carrie Fisher's image in the new Star Wars movies. I would assume the estate got paid for that. Or holo-tupac. Practically speaking I think it will come down to what you negotiate. If you negotiate usage of the bar for your series then you can use it, otherwise not. If you negotiate resale of that model then that's legal, otherwise not. Most large productions will pro…

It's not the Eiffel Tower that is copyrighted, but the light installation that is turned on at night. Taking pictures during the day is free from such restrictions: https://www.toureiffel.paris/en/business/use-image-of-eiffel...

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#96
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way to read your article if I can’t figure out how to navigate through the legalese and dark patterns of Verizon’s privacy extortion wall?

https://outline.com/https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/20/how-th...

Some of the behind the scenes photos are really uncanny. Your eyes tell you you’re looking at a photo of an outdoor scene, but the illusion of reality breaks down in subtle ways at the edges of the image.

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#97

Why is this one person always referred to with "ASC, ACS" after their name? > Greig Fraser, ASC, ACS

I believe many unions of film-making workers demands its members’ names to be always followed by the group’s names zero exceptions, to protect itself and their rights.

Show businesses was/is one of industries that unions worked.

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#99
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't trick anyone with stereo vision, but the perspective correction provides all the depth cues needed to create a convincing 3D visual for pirates and non-stereo cameras.

pirates? What arrrr you talking about?

[deleted]

Re: Real-time, in-camera background compositing in The Mandalorian

#100
post #51

The highest resolution LED panel pixel pitch I've seen to date is 0.7mm...wouldn't this result in a lower resolution capture of the projected background? Specifically, when they're trying to shoot movies at or above 4K range? Also, how do they cope with the scan rate of the background video being played back to sync with the camera recording the footage?

One of the details from the article is that using anamorphic lenses essentially treats the camera sensor as if it is larger than it actually is, which reduces the effective depth of field.

If you look carefully at the backgrounds in Mandalorian scenes, a lot of the time, they are slightly soft (out of focus)--which hides the pitch of the LED wall by expanding each LED point into larger, overlapping circles of confusion. To be clear, that softness is a physical effect of the camera lens, not a digital effect on the wall, so it can be captured by the camera sensor up to any resolution you want.

> Also, how do they cope with the scan rate of the background video being played back to sync with the camera recording the footage?

In the article they say the latency is about half a frame, which they handled by using slow camera moves--which conveniently is similar to how the original Star Wars films were shot.

If you're talking about the refresh rate of the LEDs, I believe those can be cranked up way higher than the frame rate of the camera, which was likely 24 or maybe 30 frames per second to give that cinematic feel.

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