Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Worked for a Criminal Organization

openmonstervision.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 234 posts

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#221

Post by ikeboy »

saber6 wrote: post #220
ikeboy wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not. OP is substantively wrong on their claims, not just semantically. The difference between illegal and legal is not semantic. You're the one defending someone who's wrong. Also, I'm not defending the fraud, but the (legality) of the parts of this that aren't fraudulent. I understand that you believe it's ok to smear anyone as long as they've done something else you dislike. I disagree.

> You're the one defending someone who's wrong. Ok chief. I'll wait to see the outcome of the legal case. That has 10000x more weight than a random internet commenter that appears to be continually injecting FUD. Also, just incase you missed my prior comment: Don't defend fraud artists.

If and when they get sued and found guilty of spamming or improper handling of subpoenas, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Just in case you missed all my previous comments: lying is bad regardless of the target.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#222

Post by Frondo »

leetcrew wrote: post #202
burnte wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking to leave the country over taxes, why the hell would them trying to tax your assets bother you? You're leaving. You are welcome to leave, no one is forcing you. It's the same argument with bringing jobs to dead small towns. No one ever promised everyone could get any job anywhere, sometimes you have to move. No one ever promised you could live in any country without help paying for the upkeep.

I think you may be missing the point of my post. pragmatically, I don't object to the idea of taxation. the government provides some useful services and it needs a way of funding them. I'm also not actually interested in renouncing my citizenship, as I personally find US citizenship to be worth the tax obligations. what I do object to is the common "social contract" argument for why taxes are legitimate. in particula…

Your parents consented on your behalf, as guardians are legally capable of doing for those in their care, when you were born. You affirmed that by remaining here, enjoying the privileges of citizenship, when you reached the age of majority.

There is no written contract when you sit down to eat in a restaurant, and yet you are obliged to pay after your meal.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#223

Post by TeMPOraL »

athenot wrote: post #191
TeMPOraL wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. It's related enough; if you know of a decent article on the topic, I'll happily link to it.

Here are a few links that contain some pointers: NYTimes Blog: Coca-Cola Funds Scientists Who Shift Blame for Obesity Away From Bad Diets - https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-sc... Endocrine Web: The Coke Controversy: The Marketing Message That Could Spell Trouble for People Dealing with Diabetes and Obesity - https://www.endocrineweb.com/news/diabetes/coke-controversy-... Study: Coca-Cola – a…

Thank you!

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#224

Post by normalnorm »

Koremat6666 wrote: post #216
normalnorm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one getting depressed with all the excuses and rationalizations in this thread? It's the same with "adtech" and the like... "Hey, I'm not killing anyone, what's the harm?" Technology has the potential to raise humanity above its current conditions and limitations. But we can't have it, because we are selfish and short-sighted monkeys. Take a big dump on all the ideals if this delivers the paycheck. "Bus…

> Let's turn it into a dystopic market of bullshit covered in distasteful advertising, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you and I understand your feelings are probably coming straight out your heart. However I would like to point out that when you say that the world does not meet your expectation and that somehow is a problem with the world and not your own self is very arrogant. > But we can't have it, because we…

> I would like to point out that when you say that the world does not meet your expectation and that somehow is a problem with the world and not your own self is very arrogant.

Notice that this kind of argument could have been (and probably was) used against the abolition of slavery, the civil rights movement, universal suffrage, gay marriage or religious freedom. If you have a minority position against the status quo, you can always be accused of arrogance. "Who are you to think you know better?". However, sometimes the arrogant are right.

> These distasteful comments about fellow humans are nothing but the same arrogant thought process that has caused havoc around the world through ideologies like communism and colonialism.

And capitalism, don't forget. The ideology of infinite growth is destroying our habitat.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#225

Post by iovrthoughtthis »

jotm wrote: post #124
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics. Where were yours?

Yeah, look, ethics is great and all but when you risk being homeless or hungry, it quickly goes out the window. Especially for "victimless" (i.e. no one is directly affected) illegal activity.

Assuming this is the truth, I think that's fair enough tbh. IMO your ethics have to change depending on your safety. I apologize for the initial assumption of your well being. I hope (given the context of the website) it is evident why I jumped to that assumption!

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#226

Post by henvic »

to11mtm wrote: post #218
henvic wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax evasion is not even a real crime. Tax is stealing from someone. Tax evasion and avoidance are great for society and we would be poorer if people didn't do it. Virtually all tax money usually goes to wars, warmongers, and the pockets of politicians and bureaucrats. Virtually nothing returns to society as services. When people find a way to pay fewer taxes, it means money is not only not going to wars, but also bei…

In theory, sure, but reality is a bit of a prisoner's dilemma. Consider: Person A is evading Taxes. Person B is not evading taxes. Government says 'Well, we aren't getting enough money', So they raise taxes on those who can't realistically evade. By a second order effect, Person A is causing Person B to get 'stolen from' twice instead of once.

I'd say it doesn't work like this. Instead, the state will try to charge as much as possible taxes from both of them while providing the least amount of service possible so someone not paying tax has a really low impact overall on the services the state is able to provide.

They charge tax way higher than any of the services they provide truly cost (even if we put any efficiency concerns aside).

I'd even argue this impact is positive given that now money is freely circulating in society for other stuff. For me, society will eventually have other ways to finance infrastructure and social benefits that are not based on taxes, as it happens today – but this doesn't even mean something entirely new. Let's remember most fire companies, schools, hospitals, and other stuff we rely upon are either privately maintained (for-profit or not), the concept started like so, or both.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#227

Post by Kaiyou »

burnte wrote: post #208
leetcrew wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be missing the point of my post. pragmatically, I don't object to the idea of taxation. the government provides some useful services and it needs a way of funding them. I'm also not actually interested in renouncing my citizenship, as I personally find US citizenship to be worth the tax obligations. what I do object to is the common "social contract" argument for why taxes are legitimate. in particula…

"I submit because an overwhelmingly powerful entity compels me." This is also the "I don't want to be told what to do" argument, which PERSONALLY I find immature. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not calling you a name, we're having a reasonable discussion, I'm just saying that no one likes being given orders, but it's a part of life. You DO have the option of leaving and going somewhere without taxes. You're submitti…

Yes, you are submitting because you have to, hence nobody is losing sleep over dealing with it in an appropriate way. You wouldn't submit if you didn't have to.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#228

Post by burnte »

kortilla wrote: post #204
burnte wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are dues for being part of a club. Any club will send security if you stay there, without paying, and refuse to leave.

No, a club will not imprison you in the club. They will just kick you out.

Depends on the club.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#229

Post by Kaiyou »

burnte wrote: post #193
henvic wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On point. Tax is extortion. If you don't pay, they'll send the thugs after you. Try to stand your ground and they escalate the violence up to murder.

Taxes are dues for being part of a club. Any club will send security if you stay there, without paying, and refuse to leave.

Clubs are opt-in, taxes aren't.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#230

Post by mrmonkeyman »

nybble41 wrote: post #197
burnte wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are dues for being part of a club. You're free to move to somewhere else if you don't want to be part of that club but you don't get to freeload.

If it were just a "club" (as opposed to a protection racket) then joining would involve consent and you wouldn't have to move to quit. Also, it's not as if there's anywhere you could move to that hasn't been infested with its own "club". Merely wanting to be left in peace in the place where you were born without being compelled to pay for things you never asked for is not "freeloading".

That's fine by me. Just don't collect social security, drive on our roads, use our schools, actually don't use any of our infrastructure in any way whatsoever and we're OK.
Post reply on HN