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Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

latimes.com

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Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#51

Post by kazinator »

gwright wrote: post #47
DoreenMichele wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro right to die, but it's complicated. If we start killing people "because you are a burden to your family," that's a rather ugly slippery slope that flies in the face of most moral and legal precedents that say "Love and legal obligation mean staying to the bitter end and never faltering in your duty." Most people with something terribly wrong are holding out hope for some new breakthrough -- some new drug or t…

> I'm pro right to die, but it's complicated. > I think I should have the right to say "Nope. I'm done with this crap." This is a pretty standard way of staking out a position on this topic but I think it is quite misleading. Laws regarding euthanasia have very little if anything to do with limiting the actions of someone who wants to die or protecting their "rights". After all they can't be prosecuted after they hav…

It does (also) end up being about the right to die, because some people need assistance in dying, and those who help them are criminalized.

In a nutshell, a right whose realization you cannot delegate to another person is not a bona fide right.

Of course, delegating suicide to someone results in homicide, so everything you write is spot on.

But the effect is only those who do not need help have the right to die; those who need help effectively do not.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#52

Post by chx »

prepend wrote: post #33
chx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am. I have decided years ago and I do not see this changing significantly that once my mortgage is paid down -- which is approximately in eight years -- I just want to die, I will be 53 by then. By then the so called "bucket list" will be empty. I am living alone and this I can't see changing any time soon. Do not think I am suicidal or depressed -- I have three international trips booked for this year already and…

First, I really hope you reconsider as there are so many people you can help in the world. But I’m very curious your motivation to pay off your mortgage before death. What is driving that? I always thought mortgage payment was a stress as it is to me. But if I were to die then I wouldn’t need to care about mortgage. If anything, I would pay less mortgage and spend more liberally in my final 8 years. Perhaps 4 or even…

I want to leave a problem free inheritance to my nephew who is everything to me in this world.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#53

Post by chx »

riku_iki wrote: post #28
chx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am. I have decided years ago and I do not see this changing significantly that once my mortgage is paid down -- which is approximately in eight years -- I just want to die, I will be 53 by then. By then the so called "bucket list" will be empty. I am living alone and this I can't see changing any time soon. Do not think I am suicidal or depressed -- I have three international trips booked for this year already and…

53 looks young enough to be active, enjoy life and add value to society if you take care of your health.

> if you take care of your health.

Yeah. See, I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes not long ago (AFTER I made the decision on when is the show over) and I can fully maintain a non diabetic blood sugar level with just diet and for the time being , I am doing so. It however greatly limits one of the biggest enjoyment in my life, namely food. THAT is the future -- as I age , more and more things I could do I won't be able to. I bought a rolling carry on for the first time today because I recognize running around with a stuffed backpack is not cutting it any more. Already I needed to limit how much I can sightsee on foot. All this. I am SO not interested in walking this path down to the bitter end.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#54

Post by pmoriarty »

thanatropism wrote: post #22
DoreenMichele wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro right to die, but it's complicated. If we start killing people "because you are a burden to your family," that's a rather ugly slippery slope that flies in the face of most moral and legal precedents that say "Love and legal obligation mean staying to the bitter end and never faltering in your duty." Most people with something terribly wrong are holding out hope for some new breakthrough -- some new drug or t…

Maybe the euthanasia is better left un-codified. It's not difficult to obtain the means for relatively comfortable suicide -- and people do it left and right, mostly for reasons of mental illness -- so it's not like people are being oppressed by not having such a "right".

"It's not difficult to obtain the means for relatively comfortable suicide"

Except that so many people botch their suicides, and then have to live a life that's really worse than death. Or they try again, some fail again. And again. And again. Each time with agonizing, terrifying, miserable results.

They usually have to hide their attempts, too, so they can't be surrounded by loved ones, can't talk about their plans or feelings with loved ones, and can't be in a familiar place for fear of being stopped.

Sometimes other people are unintentionally harmed as others risk their own lives to stop them, or the chosen method (such as running out in to traffic) inherently endangers the lives of others.

All this misery and terror could be avoided if there was a legal way to end one's own life safely, reliably, comfortably, without stigma, and with dignity.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#55

Post by [deleted] »

chx wrote: post #53
riku_iki wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

53 looks young enough to be active, enjoy life and add value to society if you take care of your health.

> if you take care of your health. Yeah. See, I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes not long ago (AFTER I made the decision on when is the show over) and I can fully maintain a non diabetic blood sugar level with just diet and for the time being , I am doing so. It however greatly limits one of the biggest enjoyment in my life, namely food. THAT is the future -- as I age , more and more things I could do I won't be able t…

[deleted]

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#56

Post by refurb »

a-dub wrote: post #44
refurb wrote: post #3

As the article states, every situation is unique. Would I want to die a home if I had a brain tumor that was causing me to act violent and I wasn't lucid? No, I would want to be a facility. Would I want to die at home if I had a heart issue that would leave me bedridden but lucid and I would likely just fade away? Sure.

The problem is that it deputizes your loved ones as stand-ins for professional medical staff. End of life care is hard for the professionals, don't put it on your loved ones.

Agreed! Obviously I’d take my loved ones into consideration.

If the only people around are my 80-year spouse, I’m not going to put that burden on them whatever the cause of death.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#57

Post by HenryBemis »

sam36 wrote: post #18
kylec wrote: post #6

I feel like more people should consider euthanasia. If caring for you is a huge physical and financial burden, and you're basically waiting to die anyway , why not just get it over with?

[flagged]

I am always amazed to see trolls in this forum.

I see that you created the account in 2015.. that is a looooong time and only 34 karma? You must be a level 50 Troll by now. On an extreme example:

Being 5 years old, having cancer, being in intolerable pain, and having no certainty that this torment will end sooner rather than later is a topic well worth discussing.

Another aspect is the impact to the loved ones. No father wants to see their child die. No father wants to pull the plug on their child. But no father wants to see their child screaming in pain for months and months and months.

Please put aside the cost of the bullet, US elections, politics and process this instead. And if you can, please rejoin the dialogue using your love, not your hate.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#58

Post by HenryBemis »

bhhaskin wrote: post #48
epx wrote: post #43

Had an uncle that died at home and the family suffered a lot more than if he went to the hospital. Changed my mind about this topic. My plan if I get a terminal illness is to put the paperwork in order and disappear into the forest or sail into the sea :)

Just keep in mind that if you just disappear your family won't be able to get a death certificate for at least 7 years if they don't find a body. With out a death certificate they won't be able to collect life insurance, inheritance, or deal with the estate.

Exactly that. Your family will have to deal with a lot of bureaucracy. I am also in favour of settling your affairs, make a last round saying your farewells and end it in a "clean" manner. Disappearing in a forest will get you to the missing persons list. Then if/when someone finds you it will be a whole new ordeal for your loved ones, DNA tests, burials etc. Why upset them 1-5-10 years later?

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#59

Post by HenryBemis »

chkaloon wrote: post #46

Just went through this with my dad. Fortunately he was financially able to be in an assisted living facility which gave me and my sister much needed assistance and help during the process. As mentioned in the article, hospice covers very little. Unfortunately nursing home or assisted living costs $200-$800 per day depending on the place you live and the assistance needed. If your loved one doesn't qualify for Medicai…

I don't support/agree with all his opinions, but I've watched the "Dave Ramsey - Financial Peace University" and one of the things he insists on (at least I picked up on that) is to make sure you slowly invest on a package that would cover you at old age. Especially if you don't have kids to be a burden on.

Re: Think you want to die at home? You might want to think twice about that

#60

Post by gwright »

kazinator wrote: post #51
gwright wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pro right to die, but it's complicated. > I think I should have the right to say "Nope. I'm done with this crap." This is a pretty standard way of staking out a position on this topic but I think it is quite misleading. Laws regarding euthanasia have very little if anything to do with limiting the actions of someone who wants to die or protecting their "rights". After all they can't be prosecuted after they hav…

It does (also) end up being about the right to die, because some people need assistance in dying, and those who help them are criminalized. In a nutshell, a right whose realization you cannot delegate to another person is not a bona fide right. Of course, delegating suicide to someone results in homicide, so everything you write is spot on. But the effect is only those who do not need help have the right to die; thos…

I'm not sure I agree with what you are asserting.

There is the idea of "negative rights". These are rights that don't require the actions of a third party in order to be satisfied. For example, the right to not be assaulted only requires that other people not assault you. And the right to ownership of private property only requires that other people not take your property.

On the other hand a "positive right" can not be satisfied without active participation of someone else and if that right is to be guaranteed it may require that someone else be forced to do something. For example, the right to an education requires that schools, teachers, books, and other materials be provided.

The conceptual problem with positive rights is that they can only be guaranteed by infringing on someone else's negative rights. For example, the right to an education requires the forceable collection of taxes in order to fund the education system or perhaps the forceable assignment of careers to ensure enough teachers and administrators. Most people are willing to find a middle ground but that only goes so far as can be seen when people complain about high taxes or wasteful government spending.

The difficulty with your position is that it creates a situation where someone might have to be forced to kill someone despite their wishes. Let's presume that the law has been adjusted to permit someone to assist in your suicide without putting themselves in jeopardy of being prosecuted for murder (and relaxing the law like this has its own dangers). You still need to locate a person who is willing to help you. What if you don't know any such person? What if everyone you ask says that they don't want to participate? Can you assert your right and demand that someone be forced to assist you? Since you are asserting there is a "right to die" it only follows that your desire for assistance can't be denied, someone must force someone else to assist you.

The way out of this conundrum, in my opinion, is to realize that there is no such "right to die".

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