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Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

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Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#151

Post by rangibaby »

cm2187 wrote: post #149
omgtehlion wrote: post #147

First, they killed nuclear, which prompted more coal production. Now they skewed wind so much that burning gas is cheaper than using green energy. It seems no matter what Germany does, it only promotes fossil fuel usage. Quite opposite of what they wanted...

What I don't get is how renewable energy are supposed to be cheaper though they still need massive subsidies.

Subsidize it until the cost per unit is cheaper than fossil fuels due to economies of scale, then the subsidies are no longer necessary

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#152

Post by Radle »

I worked in the Utility Software area for a while. Everything related to energy in Germany looks like corruption if you look to closely.

Everyone is buddies with someone in politics, otherwise screw your career.

Laws are mainly pre written by the industry which is afraid of the risks associated with tackling the challenges involved in climate change. But also afraid of doing nothing, since this would make them clear targets for disruption through voters. So when they do change something it is always in extremely small steps, limited in scope, without changes to the wider system.

While politics give a clear sense of direction regarding renewable energy, the whole thing seems to be to complex for politicians to fully grasp.

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#153

Post by Radle »

cm2187 wrote: post #149
omgtehlion wrote: post #147

First, they killed nuclear, which prompted more coal production. Now they skewed wind so much that burning gas is cheaper than using green energy. It seems no matter what Germany does, it only promotes fossil fuel usage. Quite opposite of what they wanted...

What I don't get is how renewable energy are supposed to be cheaper though they still need massive subsidies.

Do renewables need massive subsidies to sustain themselves or do politics offer massive subsidies because they want to have even more renewable energy?

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#154

Post by scarejunba »

dekhn wrote: post #76
shazow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdrying clothes damages them. Hang-drying clothes increases the clothes' longevity.

My collection of 20+ year old T-shirts does not support this hypothesis. my experience has been the agitator in the washer is what causes the most damage.

Most of my T-shirts survive this (and I love having things come right out nice and dry) but there are 100% cotton and 100% wool clothes that shrink. I try the lower temperatures but the only real sustainable way I found was to lose weight continuously so I can fit in them. The others I just send to the laundry guys. Don't know what they do but it usually comes back nice.

Considering how popular synthetics are these days, I suspect it's because they use small combo washer/dryers in Europe. Certainly my British washer/dryer combo did a good job.

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#156

Post by nfg »

nl wrote: post #108
buzzkillington wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, but we don't have the transmission, storage or gas generation currently. So we need to spend trillions to build a system that still produces enough CO2 to make a mass extinction inevitable by 2100. Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?

mass extinction inevitable by 2100 This is very emotive language, which is fine, but there is no currently projected scenario where mass extinction is inevitable or even likely. Great, but we don't have the transmission, storage or gas generation currently. We are well on the way. In many parts of the world this is the majority energy mix already. So we need to spend trillions to build a system that still produces en…

The poster said ‘a mass extinction’ which does not mean what you seem to think it does: “An extinction event (also known as a mass extinction or biotic crisis) is a widespread and rapid decrease in the biodiversity on Earth.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

It seems very fair - even overly cautious! - to push the inevitability of that out to 2100 when many would say it is already in progress.

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#157

Post by Aaaaahhhh »

dekhn wrote: post #36

I recall talking to some europeans and they said they like their driers, which only half dry clothes (they put them up on a line to finish) but use less energy. It's some sort of virtue thing, I guess.

I am European. I don't have a drier and I don't know why I should buy one. For me diers are just a waste of space and energy.

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#158

Post by DoreenMichele »

Aaaaahhhh wrote: post #157
dekhn wrote: post #36

I recall talking to some europeans and they said they like their driers, which only half dry clothes (they put them up on a line to finish) but use less energy. It's some sort of virtue thing, I guess.

I am European. I don't have a drier and I don't know why I should buy one. For me diers are just a waste of space and energy.

I'm curious: How do you handle clothes washing and drying?

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#159

Post by Aaaaahhhh »

jakub_g wrote: post #32

I'm rather a noob in the topic, but I've been reading in recent months about energy market and it seems like a collective insanity in the light of the climate crisis. - In most(whole?) Europe, electricity used by trains is taxed higher than jet fuel used by planes (legacy measure from decades ago which was meant to boost air market; of course now it's hugely difficult to change it) - Germany went strongly into renewa…

You are ignoring the nuclear waste. We are just burying it in caves which is not really a solution.

Re: Why Germans won’t heat their homes even with free electricity?

#160

Post by slashdotdash »

usrusr wrote: post #50
Zenst wrote: post #21

I'm somewhat shocked that they do they not load those subsidies onto the electricity charge on consumers as a tax and mean those that use more, pay more. That's what they do in the UK, though alas they loaded it onto the standing charge that is a flat rate per day for having a supply. Idealy it should be like personal TAX, you have a certain amount you get without being taxed, then after that you pay X amount until y…

> alas they loaded it onto the standing charge that is a flat rate per day for having a supply. Not true, source: my electricity bill. A standing charge exists, but the vast majority of what we pay is per kWh. The part that you misunderstood, I think, is that the EEG is fixed per kWh and not per euro paid (just like most of our fuel taxes, even if crude doubles or halves in price our price at the pump only shifts a l…

> In reality, it's impossible for a households to get a contract that follows market rate, you always pay the same per kWh no matter if it's Sunday or Monday, windy or calm.

In the UK you can use the Agile tariff from Octopus Energy (https://octopus.energy/agile/) which has half hourly dynamic pricing per electricity kWh. The next 24hrs worth of prices are released each day around 4pm and follow market cost. There’s a 12p/kWh surcharge between 4pm and 7pm during peak demand. Used in conjunction with a smart meter it bills per half hour usage and can go negative.

Twice in the last two week’s it has gone below zero due to recent storms. It’s a great tariff if you have an electric car to charge in the early hours when prices are cheapest and can reduce usage during the peak three hours. A home battery would also help out as it could be charged during cheap periods and discharged when prices are too high.

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