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Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

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Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#31

Post by gregpilling »

damoncali wrote: post #27
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I read this account, my immediate response was that the police officer was an idiot. Regardless of why the accelerator is stuck, it seems as though a trained police officer should know that you can shift a moving car into neutral with the flick of a wrist. Yes it might ruin the engine, but who cares. The fact that he had time to call 911 and didn't do this first is shocking to me. I knew this trick sin…

I've read that when the engine is racing, it can take some force to get the transmission into neutral. Don't know if that's actually true (never tried, and I usually drive a manual), but it would explain the failure.

Nope, usually pretty easy. In 1999 I had the the throttle linkage break on a 5-ton truck I was driving up I-10. It instantly went to full throttle, accelerating as madly as a heavy truck can, and I simply put it in neutral and signaled for the next exit and pulled over to the shoulder. The engine was screaming, it wouldn't shut off with the key (diesel) and I finally got it off by putting a book over the intake. Then I fixed the linkage with some wire and drove home.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#32

Post by scott_meyer »

So, from the executive summary, it appears that NASA looked at the throttle system and was unable to find a systematic explanation for it being stuck open. A stuck throttle, by itself, is quite awkward but if you have a working brake override system, an awkward lurch will be as bad as it gets.

But regardless of what NASA did or did not find, there were real accidents involving throttles which were stuck open for minutes at a time with the engine completely overpowering the brakes. Recall that in the 100mph LA crash which set off the investigation the brakes were completely destroyed.

That is a real design flaw, an error of commission by Toyota. Other cars, for example VWs, have a brake override and the drivers manual documents an accelerator "double-tap" protocol for giving the accelerator priority, say when starting on a steep hill.

Furthermore, in the week after the recall, the president of Toyota announced that Toyota throttle systems would henceforth include a brake override. Here's their official press release making good on that promise:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-extends-brake-over...

So I can't develop too much sympathy for Toyota. They made a basic design mistake in a safety critical system, and then refused to acknowledge the problem. That mistake and their mishandling of it cost them a ton of money and that is exactly as it should be.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#33

Post by dspeyer »

idoh wrote: post #23
kscaldef wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So Toyota's perceived problems became reality, and we needed to devote 10 months of the brightest engineering minds in the world to change that." Sadly, that's not how it works. People will forever remember that Toyota had horrible safety problems, and not that they were actually exonerated in the end.

Indeed. I still won't touch an Audi even decades after the 60 Minutes episode, even though it turned out to be false. Logically I know but logic only goes so far.

So the moral is: don't read/watch the mainstream press at all.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#34

Post by kiujhygthujk »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #13

> Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned? How completely unreliable our media can be when it comes to anything not having to do with Jersey Shore or American Idol? Forgive the snark, but the idea that a company lost all that money, sustained such damage to their brand and image built over so many years simply because of a media that failed to do their jobs makes my blood boil.

I wonder how much pull Toyota has with the Japanese media? (ie how much ad time they buy).

ANA is the launch customer for the 787, a few stories about safety concerns could end up with an 18month delay while the Japanese space agency does a study.

This would also hit Toyota's rivals (Mitsubish and Fuji) who are building parts for the 787.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#35

Post by InclinedPlane »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #13

> Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned? How completely unreliable our media can be when it comes to anything not having to do with Jersey Shore or American Idol? Forgive the snark, but the idea that a company lost all that money, sustained such damage to their brand and image built over so many years simply because of a media that failed to do their jobs makes my blood boil.

Do you think this incident is unique and isolated? Perhaps everyone should re-investigate any of their beliefs that they've arrived at solely through media coverage.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#36

Post by sunchild »

kiujhygthujk wrote: post #34
trustfundbaby wrote: post #13

> Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned? How completely unreliable our media can be when it comes to anything not having to do with Jersey Shore or American Idol? Forgive the snark, but the idea that a company lost all that money, sustained such damage to their brand and image built over so many years simply because of a media that failed to do their jobs makes my blood boil.

I wonder how much pull Toyota has with the Japanese media? (ie how much ad time they buy). ANA is the launch customer for the 787, a few stories about safety concerns could end up with an 18month delay while the Japanese space agency does a study. This would also hit Toyota's rivals (Mitsubish and Fuji) who are building parts for the 787.

It's not their style. Toyota got to where they are today by patiently building up an organization that beats their competition. They play fair and square, even when their enemies don't.

I was recently at the Toyota museum in Nagoya. Toyota was originally founded to bring pride back to post-war Japan, and I think that principle is still at work in the company today.

Re: Toyota's Recall Crisis: What Have We Learned?

#37

Post by Empedocles99 »

sunchild wrote: post #36
kiujhygthujk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much pull Toyota has with the Japanese media? (ie how much ad time they buy). ANA is the launch customer for the 787, a few stories about safety concerns could end up with an 18month delay while the Japanese space agency does a study. This would also hit Toyota's rivals (Mitsubish and Fuji) who are building parts for the 787.

It's not their style. Toyota got to where they are today by patiently building up an organization that beats their competition. They play fair and square, even when their enemies don't. I was recently at the Toyota museum in Nagoya. Toyota was originally founded to bring pride back to post-war Japan, and I think that principle is still at work in the company today.

Except when they went rally racing in WRC, where they got banned for cheating in a really egregious manner.
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