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Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

reuters.com

71–80 of 82 posts

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#71
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchains are highly inefficient for decentralized consensus as well.

But they are the most efficient known solution to the problem. Efficiency is relative.

No, they are the most efficient known solution to global consensus for double-spend. There are alternatives that relax the constraints using extra information such as connections in the network to get a relatively good approximation of the global consensus. See Safecoin, for example.

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#72
post #69
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issuing banks provide credit and insurance, and quite a lot of effort in the system goes to anti-fraud. Especially for online payments.

It used to be that way but with all the data available to us now, managing fraud isn’t as difficult as it used to be. Definitely not to the tune of 3-4% both ways combined in many cases.

EU fees are capped at 0.2 per cent of the transaction value for debit cards and at 0.3 per cent for credit cards. Americans presumably are getting ripped off for the usual "free market" reasons.

(Not counting Amex cards, which take 3% off the merchant and hand most of it back to the customer)

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#73
post #4

This headline is goofy. Central banks have been using digital electronic currencies for decades. The difference is that now they want to include all Swedes in the electronic currency system, not just Swedish banks, as they have been for decades. (And the claim that this uses "blockchain technology" is just a lie; it's a centralized database. It's no more a blockchain than Git is.) I think this is a terrible idea give…

(And of course currencies have been digital, as opposed to analog, for thousands of years, and one of the leading hypotheses on the origin of digits as a way of representing numbers is that they were used for accounting. "Digital" is not simply a synonym for "electronic"; rather, it's the practice of representing numbers or other information as sequences of discrete, arbitrary symbols, rather than continuously varying quantities of something like weight, width, or voltage; symbols such as "4", coins, or cuneiform glyphs.)

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#74
Sorry if this is naive, but how is this different to electronic currency? The whole difference between cryptocurrencies and electronic currency, is that cryptos are decentralised and have a public ledger.

A CBDC (central bank digital currency) does not have a public ledger, and is not distributed. If they are using a blockchain internally (an entirely pointless concept done only for the addition of a buzzword to their webpage), that doesn't make it a crypto in the currently known sense.

So I ask again: how is this different to digital/electronic currency that already exists? I can open my bank app, check the funds, send them to another person instantly. None of that involved paper, and all of it was backed and controlled by the central bank. What makes this any different?

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with a central server for money is that it makes the whole state vulnerable. If everybody use central bank e-currency you can just attack their sever to destroy the flow of all money. But if it is distributed like real crypto currency, you have to be able to attack and take down hundreds or thousands of severs geographically spread.

I don’t disagree with you, but central server for money is what we have had since the beginning of time right? We have central banks, where banks have cash, and and central securities depositories, where they have their securities.

Yup, this is nothing new.

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#76

My company’s suggested implementation made it to the second round of proposals. Unfortunately we are not involved any more. There are some serious challenges that needs to be ironed out. Two that comes to mind is how to solve offline payments, the other one is how to live up to the requirement from the government that the currency needs to be liquid also during a crisis (what if electricity or telecom doesn’t work?)…

I appreciate the insight. Regarding offline payments: Isn't the physical Krona exactly just that? Why is a new solution for this required?

I couldn't help but chuckle at the two typos (Freudian slips?) of Riksbank: "The Riskbank" and "The Rikabank" (bank of the rich).

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#77
Why not something like GNU Taler[1]? It's a centralized digital currency with privacy for the payer at its core, but payees are always identified (very useful for taxation purposes). That sounds like exactly the use case for a government entity that wants a digital cash replacement.

- [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Taler

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#78
post #3

> The pilot will run until February 2021 and will use block-chain technology, the Riksbank said. Will it really? Riksbanken can have a central server to resolve any double spends, which is only really a problem in a decentralized network. Once you have a singular authority you can just let them decide, and you'll have no need for an inefficient cryptocurrency. > which is being developed by consulting firm Accenture A…

> Once you have a singular authority you can just let them decide

There are still a few benefits of crypto here:

- the “service” can stay up even when gov’t servers go down

- you can even make some transactions without network access at all

- transparency about money supply

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people really don't like cryptocurrencies

Is it just pure hatred ? There don't seem to be much arguing going on...

My theory is that the nerds on here who spend too much time in the financial fun house become imbibed with the ethos of it. It's really a sad end to a lot of idealistic young hackers who give up on changing the world in order to defend their fancy new stock portfolios. The joke is ultimately on them however, as everyone who trusts wall street eventually gets taken to the cleaners.

Re: Sweden’s central bank says it has begun testing an e-krona

#80
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without proof of work

having proof of work or not is orthogonal to whether it's a blockchain or not. see: blockchains for proof of stake cryptocurrencies.

I think a lot of non-technical business people and journos didn't fully understand that the Bitcoin blockchain is more than just a Merkel tree, and so have started using "blockchain" to mean a bare MT, despite the fact that the blockchain in Bitcoin is only meaningful because of how it's computed.

So maybe proof of work can be replaced, but without some consensus protocol it's not a blockchain in any meaningful sense.

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