Live data from Hacker News

Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

nytimes.com

21–30 of 115 posts

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#21
If you're considering using E-Trade you may want to consider that E-Trade does not take responsibility if they are hacked. They group cybersecurity events and software malfunction under "Force Majeure" events ("acts of God"). That means if your retirement savings vanish because they are hacked you're out of luck. See https://content.etrade.com/etrade/estation/pdf/10118customer...

Fidelity and Vanguard don't have such clauses. Hope Morgan Stanley fixes this.

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#22
post #7
post #3

With the move to $0 order fees for online brokerages, not surprised to see more tie-ups. Even running the business at break-even, MS gets to market their other products to all E-Trade's customers. That said, what's the current economic model for independent online brokerages? Sell order flow? Rate arbitrage off uninvested assets?

There was a somewhat revealing interview by the people behind Flatex, a big discount broker from Germany [0]. Dutch source, do use a translator https://www.tijd.be/markten-live/nieuws/algemeen/nieuwe-eige... "Is it easier for a pan European company to keep big US competition like Robin Hood and Ameritrade out? Niehage: 'The companies you name are very badly positioned for Europe. Their economic model is based on two…

With 0% interest rates in Europe, do you think this will encourage large savers to get their money invested? I think the idea of negative interest rates is absurd however it might encourage Europeans to invest more money versus stashing in savings accounts

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#23

I rely on Matt Levine to explain, more clearly than I could, how brokerages make money ("The Trades Will Be Free Now"): https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-02/the-tr... Let me highlight a key passage: "Even this understates the change, because the actual way that stock brokers work today is that you keep some cash in your brokerage account to fund potential trades, and the broker earns interest on that…

I agree with the premise that GS is trying to break into more retail and boring banking. In my opinion they may have already missed the opportunity. JPM/Chase and Bank of America/Merril Lynch figured out this business model over a decade ago and have been building customer bases. Last earnings showed the Apple card to be a disappointment

You are right in that Chase, BofA, Citi and the like have a pretty large head start, but this is just the first innings. I can't even imagine the coming disruptions and ideas in the space. Partnering with Apple -- or Google, which I am sure people have and will -- seems like the right way to get into the space since the mobile phone is the key platform at the moment.

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#24
post #21

If you're considering using E-Trade you may want to consider that E-Trade does not take responsibility if they are hacked. They group cybersecurity events and software malfunction under "Force Majeure" events ("acts of God"). That means if your retirement savings vanish because they are hacked you're out of luck. See https://content.etrade.com/etrade/estation/pdf/10118customer... Fidelity and Vanguard don't have such…

Do you believe the usual insurance programmes will not help in the event of a hack?

https://us.etrade.com/l/f/asset-protection

Basically everyone has $500k insured in their trading account. Are you concerned about people with more than that, or concerned that it wouldn't cover hacking?

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#26
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a somewhat revealing interview by the people behind Flatex, a big discount broker from Germany [0]. Dutch source, do use a translator https://www.tijd.be/markten-live/nieuws/algemeen/nieuwe-eige... "Is it easier for a pan European company to keep big US competition like Robin Hood and Ameritrade out? Niehage: 'The companies you name are very badly positioned for Europe. Their economic model is based on two…

With 0% interest rates in Europe, do you think this will encourage large savers to get their money invested? I think the idea of negative interest rates is absurd however it might encourage Europeans to invest more money versus stashing in savings accounts

My coworker just did this, moved from savings to passive investments, because of 0% interest rates, and the warning of potential negative rates for "consumer" accounts. Bussiness accounts are already at negative interest rates at some banks.

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#27
post #25

$13B is a more than 96% discount on the stated $360B asset value, what am I missing? Unless it means (or is including) assets held for clients in nominee accounts?

Correct. They bought the business and future cash flows but the AUM are not included in the valuation beyond the extent to their contribution to cash flow.

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#28
post #19

I rely on Matt Levine to explain, more clearly than I could, how brokerages make money ("The Trades Will Be Free Now"): https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-02/the-tr... Let me highlight a key passage: "Even this understates the change, because the actual way that stock brokers work today is that you keep some cash in your brokerage account to fund potential trades, and the broker earns interest on that…

this is a good explanation too, and from a local. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/6/26/how-brokerages-make-mone... The writing was on the wall for E-Trade. Banking is in an ebb of consolidation. E-Trade and TD Ameritrade had to sell once Interactive Brokers / Schwab started that game of dropping commission. They didnt add enough other value besides stock trading. They are a component to a larger banking suite. I have…

> Banking is in an ebb of consolidation.

All businesses are consolidating due to economies of scale and low marginal costs from automation and computing power.

> I am somewhat surprised nobody offers an abstracted savings account, that handles 401k, IRA, HSA, paying rent and bills, and access to credit.

There are numerous differing laws for each kind of account and required disclosures. You also can’t have joint tax advantaged retirement savings accounts.

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the premise that GS is trying to break into more retail and boring banking. In my opinion they may have already missed the opportunity. JPM/Chase and Bank of America/Merril Lynch figured out this business model over a decade ago and have been building customer bases. Last earnings showed the Apple card to be a disappointment

You are right in that Chase, BofA, Citi and the like have a pretty large head start, but this is just the first innings. I can't even imagine the coming disruptions and ideas in the space. Partnering with Apple -- or Google, which I am sure people have and will -- seems like the right way to get into the space since the mobile phone is the key platform at the moment.

I haven't used apple pay since touch-less cards came out. It'll be interesting to see how they pivot to something beyond pure convenience. I highly doubt the target consumer cares about security. It'll also be interesting to see how far tech companies are willing to partner given increased regulation and scrutiny when finance is involved

Re: Morgan Stanley to Buy E-Trade for $13B

#30

Aw man, I just got moved from Capital One 360 Investing to E-Trade. Now I'll have to move to Morgan Stanley? Any way to just transfer my sh*t from E-Trade to Robinhood without just selling and re-buying, incurring a change in tax status? Seems Robinhood has unfortunately sunset that option...

outside of the flashy app, is there really anything Robinhood does better than Schwab or Fidelity? And in the realm of newcomers, M1 offers a better feature set.
Post reply on HN