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Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

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Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#171

Post by alistairSH »

magduf wrote: post #145
alistairSH wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did we read the same blog entry? Her first manager propositioned her for sex almost on day one. HR lied about that managers past issues and told her suck it up or receive a negative review. She received a negative review anyways (changed after the fact - her in-person review was positive). This blocked role changes and made her ineligible for graduate tuition reimbursement. Leather jackets for the men, women told to…

While I do agree about the jackets thing being sexist, I would like to point out that this isn't always a man vs. woman thing. At my current company, they like to buy corporate-branded clothing for employees too. T-shirts, polo shirts, and sweatshirts/hoodies are what they normally get. The last time they got some shirts, I went to go get some, and they were all in L, XL, and XXL sizes. I'm a tall guy, but I'm slim a…

The way I read it, they actually had all the employees try on jackets and ordered them for each employee, except they turned around and didn't order female jackets because they didn't meet a minimum order size.

That's quite a bit different than ordering a batch of jackets in some array of sizes and hoping most people can find one that fits. That's still a bit shitty, but not nearly as shitty as above.

I'll also note that having been through several rounds of custom clothing orders (for a sports team), getting the count for women's items waived is common, as long as the total order size meets minimums.

Of course none of the above is as shitty as the government agency my neighbor works at that asked the female employees to serve cocktails at a winter social.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#172

Post by downerending »

wbronitsky wrote: post #160
downerending wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a baby born in America white and male is among the luckiest babies in history Where can I go to get a refund on that deal?

This response has to be the most aggressive misreading of privilege I've encountered in a while. Privilege IS NOT a system where everyone in a group gets better outcomes than another group. It IS NOT a system in which everyone in a group even receives all of the benefits of privilege. Yet it does describe systematic power imbalances that cause the majority of members in a group to receive benefits or the lack of oppr…

When discussing universal statements, counterexamples are arguably useful.

More importantly, though, I think we're all dealt a huge hand of cards--many at birth, some later--some beneficial, some deleterious. In a form of social bikeshedding, we tend to concentrate on things like race and gender because they're obvious. It's far from clear, though, that they constitute more than a tiny fraction of the cards that matter. Denouncing someone because of their race, gender, etc., seems pointless and cruel. I prefer to deal with each person as an individual.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#173

Post by charliesharding »

wpietri wrote: post #170
charliesharding wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good intentions do not absolve people of objectively bad ideas. I drew that comparison because they are playing opposite sides of the same game of identity politics, which I'm saying is inherently flawed

Complaining about identity politics is a big way white men practice identity politics, Charles. When there's a problem, refusing to let people talk about the problem becomes part of the problem.

What makes you think it's ok to make wide, sweeping generalizations about how people of a certain race and gender think and how do you think that doesn't constitute racism?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#174

Post by wavepruner »

wbronitsky wrote: post #165
wavepruner wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are power structures being built to counteract the older power structures of predominately white male society. These power structures aim to exclude white men in an attempt to make up for historical discrepancy. Unfortunately, disability is often not taken into account, and so we now have power structures that discriminate against white men whether they are disabled or not. Empowering a healthy, able-bodied wom…

plays worlds tiniest violin I am truly speechless. Later HN, its been good.

I'm just trying to find a way to stay alive. I don't understand why I get so much hate for that. I can't take care of the oppression other minorities face. I can't even take care of myself.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#175

Post by charliesharding »

fzeroracer wrote: post #166
charliesharding wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, as in I'm arguing that it's a bad way to view the world... Total non sequitur. No, not everyone engages in identity politics. Only people who are looking for an easy out and not individually assessing ideas and their ramifications

What about the fact that again, you've engaged in identity politics here on HN? My entire point is that it's hypocritical to decry identity politics while also engaging in identity politics.

Go ahead and quote me in context. I'm not going to go back and read through all my comments like you have but I'm sure it's defensible

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#176

Post by dang »

ecmascript wrote: post #4

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

This sort of flamewar stoking is not welcome on HN. Please do it elsewhere, or nowhere, but not here.

Using HN primarily for ideological warfare will get you banned, regardless of which ideology you favor or disfavor, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#177

Post by dang »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #8
ecmascript wrote: post #4

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

I don't agree with your opinion, but I vouched for you (after you were flagged) because you didn't violate any of the rules and I believe that your opinion is worth discussing. Feminism can go extreme at times and your opinion has a level of validity. Additionally I would like to probe how a person like you would arrive at that conclusion. Another thing that gets me is that you didn't do anything wrong. You aren't sl…

It's not true that that comment didn't violate any of HN's rules. It violated several rules, such as the ones against flamebait and ideological battle.

Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#178

Post by brazzy »

mercer wrote: post #71
chrisseaton wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be misunderstanding. The idea is that a large HR department knows how to do things legally correctly. People hope that a large corporate HR department is going to be at least following the law, which is a step up compared to a tiny company with no HR expertise that may do things unprofessionally. I don't think anyone's under a misapprehension that having an HR department means they're going to side wi…

I'd say the very assumption that those who 'own' the output of your labor, especially in larger companies, is hopelessly but understandably naive.

I think you're missing half a sentence in there.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#179

Post by oumua_don17 »

namanaggarwal wrote: post #52

You can never overestimate the amount of sexual harassment women faces in the tech industry. My Fiancée kept telling me about different incidents that happened with her and I used to always brush it off saying maybe you are reading too much. Until one of her other female colleague shared the same incident. I asked her to goto HR but be prepared for the backlash to the extent of firing. And as expected HR took no acti…

>> You can never overestimate the amount of sexual harassment women faces in the tech industry.

Why just tech industry, even though I am offering anecdotal evidence? My wife works in the social services sector, and listening to her and her female colleagues; it's the same story.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#180

Post by crimsonalucard »

dang wrote: post #177
crimsonalucard wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with your opinion, but I vouched for you (after you were flagged) because you didn't violate any of the rules and I believe that your opinion is worth discussing. Feminism can go extreme at times and your opinion has a level of validity. Additionally I would like to probe how a person like you would arrive at that conclusion. Another thing that gets me is that you didn't do anything wrong. You aren't sl…

It's not true that that comment didn't violate any of HN's rules. It violated several rules, such as the ones against flamebait and ideological battle. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ?

Ok you're right. But the topic itself: of men also suffering from sexism, to me, does not violate the rules; if he presented that topic in a different way would it still violate the rules according to canon/you?
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