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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#971

Post by carapace »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #723
carapace wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[In]efficient at what? You've got to think carefully about your metrics when it comes to government. Look it's widely understood that, if the dictator or tyrant is good at his (or, very occasionally, her) job then things usually go well. The old women of Bhutan cried when the King decreed democracy. It's getting rid of the bad ones that's the big problem, and so: democracy. "The worst form of government except for al…

Democracy is efficient at getting shit done. As uncareful as this metric is defined. But I would say even more importantly, democracy is very efficient at limiting internal bloodshed. It provides a well-defined, peaceful process for people to grab power. The power is limited, but you don't have to kill people to gain it, and in turn you don't risk getting killed yourself by the next upstart.

I agree. One of the most important and successful aspects is the relatively peaceful transfer of power.

Personally I'm more concerned that the government remains responsive and, for lack of a better word, humble.

(That's part of why the Kingdom of Bhutan is so amazing: the don't measure GNP, they have a measure called Gross National Happiness that they take pretty seriously. Heh. They really seem to have their kit together. It's a Third-World country you can't emigrate to.)

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#972

Post by Apocryphon »

sokoloff wrote: post #943
alexgmcm wrote: post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, I believe, the biggest strike against management. If the management decide you get open offices, then that decision binds everyone, whether they wanted an open office or not.

That's actually not (necessarily) the case (source: I'm management) Having management make adaptations specific to an individual's preferences is a feature available in a management-employee negotiated arrangement that might be precluded or more difficult in a union shop. As examples, I have colleagues working from remote locations, colleagues working in co-working spaces, colleagues working non-traditional schedules…

Once your firm gets a set office space, what layout plan will it have?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#973

Post by SkyBelow »

manfredo wrote: post #809
SkyBelow wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming they were already based on merit and not on nepotism and favoritism. In comparison to those, seniority might be a reasonable alternative.

Competition will bring success to the company that fosters an engaged and motivated workforce. Even in national unions, they are still subject to foreign competition. Sure, the free market isn't immune to nepotism or favoritism. But unions more often than not institute practices that give the same rewards to mediocrity as excellence - to the effect that the latter either put in less work or change jobs.

In either case the company risks losing to a more focused company valuing meritocracy and contribution over either nepotism or seniority. And we see this happen when starts rise up to the top. But our current system gives a lot of protection to existing players, be it through regulatory capture or be it through more natural phenomena like brand recognition taking time to decay even in the face of numerous bad products (in the world of games, look at how many people are still looking forwards to TES6 despite the issues with FO76).

There is also some cases where valuing meritocracy is only the best option when employees are willing to leave, but many employees are very stuck to their existing jobs. This is why pay raises do not keep up with the price of new hires. Consider the case where the cost to hire a new employee goes up 6% year over year while the company raises go up 1% year over year, potentially losing out to even inflation. The reasoning is that the extra costs to hire the few people who leave to another company to capture the 5% difference is smaller than the 5% savings for each person who does not leave.

To some extent, unions help to balance out the issue where most people are not perfectly rational actors.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#974

Post by aidenn0 »

OJFord wrote: post #841
aidenn0 wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it was not uncommon in the 80s and 90s for your workstation to cost significantly more than your car did. The Ultra-5 was the cheap Sun work-station at $4k base price, as by 1999 Intel based workstations were starting to put pressure on Sun from below.

I could seriously do with more RAM, but I don't need a $4k computer. In fact, since I have a MacBook but would be more than happy with a (Linux) ThinkPad, it might not even cost more. My point is, we don't need 'hardware investment' for the sake of it. If places started doing that I'd rather BYO device, and pocket the difference between what I need and what they budget for.

I think it's the disconnect between "You can't have 50 square feet of office space" compared to in the 90s where you had potentially 5 figures worth of hardware under your desk.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#975

Post by internet_user »

Seenso wrote: post #516
yibg wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…

> Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Not necessarily. I'd imagine that a union could negotiate its pay-scales any way it likes, which could take into acc…

It's amusing in some ways.

We already have an informal FAANG guild: 1) their salaries are higher 2) FAANG on the resume = already vetted 3) mastered the interview rigmarole

So it seems that efforts by employers to collude in the job market led to something that resembles a professional guild.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#977

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

Aunche wrote: post #768
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Those may be the stated reasons for a union, but for some reason, in tech, workers just want a union because they want to inject their political views into their company: > But in 2018, a heated disagreement broke out between employees and management about whether to leave a project called “Always Punch Nazis” on the platform, according to reporting in Slate. When Breitbart said the project violated Kickstarter’s ter…

And? the workers are the ones producing the platform, not the CEO or board members. It's well within their purview to inject politics if they communally agree upon it.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#978

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

xur17 wrote: post #582
linuxftw wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number 1 reason to form a union in the tech world is so a company can't pull a Disney. Replace all your full time workers with imported 'contractors' and force you to train them. Getting rid of the 'contractor' loop hole in tech will be better for everyone.

> The number 1 reason to form a union in the tech world is so a company can't pull a Disney. Replace all your full time workers with imported 'contractors' and force you to train them. How do they force you to train your replacement? There are plenty of jobs in tech right now, you could (and should) just walk out the door if something like that occurs.

IIRC, they literally included a clause in their contract that they wouldn't receive their severance pay / layoff benefits if they didn't train contractors.

This is also something a union can help with, you can't negotiate that clause out of your contract, but collectively you can.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#979

Post by thulecitizen »

baggachipz wrote: post #960
Negitivefrags wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like there is some shadowy cabal running cost benefit analysis of every decision for some evil purpose. Maybe the free snacks are there because it’s nice to have free snacks and the boss enjoys them? Does there really need to be a more sinister reason? I mean, I know at our company that I wanted to have drink fridges with a huge amount of interesting beverages because I enjoy drinking a different drink every…

There is a secret cabal running cost-benefit analyses of every decision for some evil purpose: They're called MBA's and they're everywhere. Especially in larger companies.

This. For anyone who doesn't see it, please check out the film The Reluctant Fundamentalist (2013).

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#980

Post by zaccus »

biztos wrote: post #935
Negitivefrags wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like there is some shadowy cabal running cost benefit analysis of every decision for some evil purpose. Maybe the free snacks are there because it’s nice to have free snacks and the boss enjoys them? Does there really need to be a more sinister reason? I mean, I know at our company that I wanted to have drink fridges with a huge amount of interesting beverages because I enjoy drinking a different drink every…

Once I worked in a department that had a crappy coffee maker. We got a new boss. First thing he did was get a really good coffee maker installed. That boss left, new boss showed up, coffee maker left and an even worse one than the original was installed. No espresso! In SF! In my experience having at least a VP who actually cares about the perk will vastly improve it. But most won’t care and will do whatever the defa…

I make my own coffee at home and bring it in a thermos. Office coffee sucks almost by definition.

Throw out that crappy "perk" and pay me more money.

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