Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#111

Post by tzs » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #42

komali2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turn on the ability to view flagged comments and scroll down.

So 1 comment with 17 negative responses in a full thread of 36 comments is "the majority of the community? That's kind of the part that really surprised me. That it exists, OK, but "the majority" in this thread? I feel like on the contrary, in the scope of this thread, it is a tiny minority. Edit: Since I can't reply to the comment below. By "17 negative responses" I meant negative to the one "bad" comment.

> Edit: Since I can't reply to the comment below

For future reference, if you really need to reply to a comment before the lockout on immediate replies times out, click on the timestamp on the comment. That brings you to a view of the comment that lets you reply sooner. That view either has no lockout, or the lockout is mere seconds.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#112

Post by wpietri » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

buckminster wrote: post #49

You seek to profit by gaining employment at a company built on disrespect for society and its laws and then you are surprised that it doesn't treat you with respect? I have no sympathy for anyone in this story.

Uber had very good PR. In hindsight, we all know what a horrorshow Travis was, and how awful his company became. But when Fowler joined Uber, she was 24, and Uber was still on the rise, a beloved darling. It's entirely reasonable that she (and many others) joined on the basis of what the media and what recruiters were saying at the time.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#113

Post by downerending » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #43

devchix wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aphorism that HR is there to protect the company -- I hear it all the time and it's terribly cynical, while also probably true. Why must it be this way; asked another way, why do we accept that it must be this way, that every time we engage HR it must be with the understanding that they are the adversary. Why go to HR at all, why even have HR, why not fold it all in the legal counsel's office? Why can't HR be wh…

"Why must it be this way[?]" Follow the money. I don't mean that as snark; I'm serious. I think people in general don't follow the money enough. Even some people who occasionally advocate for it are very selective about it and frequently just treat it as a slur to deploy sometimes. But it's more important than that. It should always be part of the analysis of a business. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the be…

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#114

Post by downerending » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #21

ecmascript wrote: post #4

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

> and white men in particular It's difficult for a man to experience sexism at the level a woman does for the same reason that it's nearly impossible for a white person to experience racism. Going this out of your way to "defend" white men is in direct opposition to the cause of feminism and fighting racism for a simple reason: centrism favors the status quo, and the status quo is still in 2020 that a baby born in Am…

> a baby born in America white and male is among the luckiest babies in history

Where can I go to get a refund on that deal?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#115

Post by downerending » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

fhood wrote: post #53

ecmascript wrote: post #4

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

I'm not here to pile on, I just want to understand why this point of view is so common. I have always felt incredibly blessed by my circumstances (straight white male). Would you really rather be some other gender and/or race? Do you truly believe it would make life easier?

Not easier, but probably not harder either. Everyone suffers.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#116

Post by komali2 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

Papirola wrote: post #108

komali2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly more privileged than disabled black babies. Take any example you like. Poor. Genetic disease. Whatever. Stick black on that baby and you've just made their lives another degree harder.

non-American here: how would that extra hardship manifest? and wouldn't that be illegal?

> how would that extra hardship manifest

Increased likelihood that their failure to respond to a cop's orders due to, let's say their deafness, results in them being shot dead.

> wouldn't that be illegal?

You'd think so, but no.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#117

Post by komali2 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

MockObject wrote: post #83

komali2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and white men in particular It's difficult for a man to experience sexism at the level a woman does for the same reason that it's nearly impossible for a white person to experience racism. Going this out of your way to "defend" white men is in direct opposition to the cause of feminism and fighting racism for a simple reason: centrism favors the status quo, and the status quo is still in 2020 that a baby born in Am…

>> let the downvotes rain upon me > I downvoted because of this bad faith portion of the comment. He predicted downvotes, and you provided them. Maybe the faith of that comment was good, after all?

And your thoughts on the latter half of my comment, where I suggest the entire tone of the post was to invite a negative response to confirm his martyrdom syndrome?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#118

Post by komali2 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

ecmascript wrote: post #98

andrei_says_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling or are you unaware of the thousands of years of men and institutions treating women as property, as objects of desire or status, as cheap labor, and the fact that these attitudes are still very much in place? Cry me a river, women's rights movements and feminist culture push back against this millennia-long oppression and some men don't like losing their right to treat women like sh*t. Show me the 80…

Well, it seems like you and I live in parallel universes. I don't believe these attitudes are still in place and I believe today's people have nothing to do with what happened 500 years ago for example. I am not responsible for what other people have done so I expect not to be treated as such. In my experience, men are subjects of sexism in the IT industry to a far greater extent than women are. We never hear of this…

> happened 500 years ago for example.

I think you should Google when it became illegal in the USA for a man to rape his wife.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#119

Post by magduf » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

octokatt wrote: post #95

devchix wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aphorism that HR is there to protect the company -- I hear it all the time and it's terribly cynical, while also probably true. Why must it be this way; asked another way, why do we accept that it must be this way, that every time we engage HR it must be with the understanding that they are the adversary. Why go to HR at all, why even have HR, why not fold it all in the legal counsel's office? Why can't HR be wh…

> why must it be this way Companies used to have Ombudsman; literally a board member who did nothing but listen to employee complaints and help them e heard. This tended to lead to unions, which reduced company profitability, and was replaced with the current HR model, which is now giving way to out-sourced HR models.

>Companies used to have Ombudsman; literally a board member who did nothing but listen to employee complaints and help them e heard. This tended to lead to unions, which reduced company profitability,

It sounds like the ombudsmen didn't work out too well or else they wouldn't have resorted to unionizing.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#120

Post by dudul » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #111

dudul wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 1 comment with 17 negative responses in a full thread of 36 comments is "the majority of the community? That's kind of the part that really surprised me. That it exists, OK, but "the majority" in this thread? I feel like on the contrary, in the scope of this thread, it is a tiny minority. Edit: Since I can't reply to the comment below. By "17 negative responses" I meant negative to the one "bad" comment.

> Edit: Since I can't reply to the comment below For future reference, if you really need to reply to a comment before the lockout on immediate replies times out, click on the timestamp on the comment. That brings you to a view of the comment that lets you reply sooner. That view either has no lockout, or the lockout is mere seconds.

Thanks! That's good to know. Regardless, for this occurrence it was probably better for me to edit and be a bit more specific :)