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Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

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Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#11

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

I don't agree with your opinion, but I vouched for you (after you were flagged) because you didn't violate any of the rules and I believe that your opinion is worth discussing. Feminism can go extreme at times and your opinion has a level of validity. Additionally I would like to probe how a person like you would arrive at that conclusion. Another thing that gets me is that you didn't do anything wrong. You aren't sl…

I mean, it completely dismisses other people's experiences on the first line, alleges that some kind white knights are running rampart on HN, cherrypicks "points", links to random reddit comments to attempt to prove a position.

But sure, what a comment! How dare people thing it's crap.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#12

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

This reminds me of an incident on a bus recently.

This one white guy told a black guy trying to get on that there was no more room on the bus, which was generally true, but it could have definitely looked like (from the tone and wording) that the white guy was talking down to him.

The black guy got very upset and claimed that the white man wouldn’t have said this to a white guy, and wouldn’t have said this if the bus was full of black people instead of the mostly-white and Hispanic bus in this instance.

Both parties involved escalated, argued, and made the situation worse.

At the end of the day, the original offender didn’t say anything overtly racist, but it’s also true that the black man’s points may have been factually accurate as well.

I guess, the reason I tell you this story is that:

1. I believe you are not correct to say that the majority of sexism is directed toward men. That is ridiculous. That’d be like the black guy on the bus being told that the majority of racism is against white people. Puh-lease, that does not pass the smell test. There are entire pieces of the English language that are used to accuse women of being less capable and stable (the linguistic root of the word “hysterical,” or the term “baby brain,” and a lot of others). If sexism in the tech industry is mostly against men I’d love to know why only 20% of women bother to enter that field and where the remaining 30% went.

2. Going along with point one, there is almost no response that the white guy could have made to resolve the situation. His people have been oppressing the person in question for centuries, so he’s not really in a position to be able to honestly say that he isn’t being racist or generally isn’t. There’s a saying goes that you make your own bed, and that’s what white people have done: made an entire race not trust them implicitly. This is entirely the white people’s fault. Back to the Uber situation, that’s what men have done, made the workplace so bad for women in the past that women are now fed up and can’t trust men, and they are justified.

3. Your use of of escalation is not helpful. I know you cited a bunch of sources but that doesn’t make the spirit of your comment any less inflammatory.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#13

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

This hasn’t been my experience working in IT over the last twenty years.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#14
Her work has had profound impact and I’m excited to read her book.

It’s amazing to still see the ramifications of her work today.

For example, in this very thread it shows just how latent misogyny is in the majority of the community. It’s a special sort of myopia dressed up as factual rational discussion but her work exposes that sentiment for what it is: fear of change, fear of women, fear of losing power over women, and the insecurity of emasculated men who work in power systems that encourage them to kick down.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#15

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

You posted four examples of sexism against men to prove that the overwhelming majority of sexism happens towards men? Do you believe that there are less than 4 instances of sexism happening towards women in Silicon Valley...?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with your opinion, but I vouched for you (after you were flagged) because you didn't violate any of the rules and I believe that your opinion is worth discussing. Feminism can go extreme at times and your opinion has a level of validity. Additionally I would like to probe how a person like you would arrive at that conclusion. Another thing that gets me is that you didn't do anything wrong. You aren't sl…

> Another thing that gets me is that you didn't do anything wrong. You aren't slandering women, you're just saying that there's sexism towards white men. I am not white and I say this is not worth flagging. Sure he did something wrong. This discussion thread is not about sexism towards men. It's about Susan Fowler's experience. And the "white knight" screed alone is enough to flag it. Find another submission to whine…

Or just don't whine about feminists when people are talking about serious women's issues?

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#17
post #6

>“I felt a wave of relief wash over me when I remembered that I worked at a large company, one with a sizable human resources department,” I feel like someone needs to run an education campaign on what HR is and who it works for. HR is there to protect the business. They aren't there as some moral arbiter. If you reported sexual harassment to HR you are going to be part of an equation - is it better for the business…

So very well said.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#18
post #2

That first article she wrote, exposing the culture at Uber, was profoundly upsetting and an important moment in the history of our industry. Kudos to her for standing up to one the most egregiously hostile work environments I've ever read about.

I remember reading that post and being surprised how little of it was actually sexism (the only thing I saw that qualified was the thing about the shirts), and how much of it was just maltreatment of programmers of all types. But I guess if you have to slap the label "sexism" on it to get it to be taken seriously, we take what we can get.

I have to disagree.

> Some of the women even had stories about reporting the exact same manager I had reported, and had reported inappropriate interactions with him long before I had even joined the company. It became obvious that both HR and management had been lying about this being "his first offense", and it certainly wasn't his last. Within a few months, he was reported once again for inappropriate behavior, and those who reported him were told it was still his "first offense". The situation was escalated as far up the chain as it could be escalated, and still nothing was done.

Management was sexist and the structure was kept unchanged and unchecked by HR. The jackets event, in addition to others mentioned in the post, are an extension/demonstration of that behavior.

Re: Why Susan Fowler blew the whistle on sexism at Uber

#19

Cry me a river, the overwhelming majority of sexism in the IT-industry is towards men and white men in particular. Men also don't get the privilege of getting any media outcry or changes for the sexism against them. Just to give a few examples on top of my head: There has been no conferences that has been [1] shut down or postponed [2] because of the skin color or sex of the speakers. It has definately been so for me…

You posted four examples of sexism against men to prove that the overwhelming majority of sexism happens towards men? Do you believe that there are less than 4 instances of sexism happening towards women in Silicon Valley...?

This.
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