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I Worked for a Criminal Organization

openmonstervision.github.io

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Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#131

Post by jonathanstrange »

dcustodio wrote: post #112
hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

Years ago the Portuguese government encouraged consumers to submit their receipts in a portal and each submitted receipt was a entry to a raffle where the prizes were luxury cars. This way they could match the receipts from consumers with the ones reported by the shops. It felt wrong to put citizens policing the shops but it worked.

The system still in place, if I'm not totally mistaken. (I haven't checked, because I usually don't give away my tax number for sheer laziness - I still don't know it by heart.)

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#132

Post by ryanmercer »

speedplane wrote: post #103
scandox wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a funny one because it's potentially one of the most serious crimes. You're stealing from everybody, undermining the basis of trust in the entire system in which we live and probably in the long term eroding the basis of democracy. You're creating a non-level playing field. On the other hand, black and grey market activity are also I think quite an important counter-balance to the possibility of totalitarian gov…

> It's a funny one because [Tax Evasion is] potentially one of the most serious crimes. You're stealing from everybody, undermining the basis of trust in the entire system in which we live and probably in the long term eroding the basis of democracy. You're creating a non-level playing field. This is true, and in addition, it's a very unequal crime. To properly evade taxes and get away with it, you need professional…

>Most standard W-2 employees can't afford it, i.e., for most, the cost to hire professional help evading taxes is larger than the taxes they could save.

.

>than saving 20% on $200k/yr income

Erm, that's not a standard W2 employee's income. Not even close. The median U.S. household income was $63,179 in 2017.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#133

Post by tonyedgecombe »

jotm wrote: post #124
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics. Where were yours?

Yeah, look, ethics is great and all but when you risk being homeless or hungry, it quickly goes out the window. Especially for "victimless" (i.e. no one is directly affected) illegal activity.

If you are at risk of being homeless or hungry you are probably below the threshold for paying taxes in most countries.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#134

Post by arethuza »

nkrisc wrote: post #130
normalnorm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one getting depressed with all the excuses and rationalizations in this thread? It's the same with "adtech" and the like... "Hey, I'm not killing anyone, what's the harm?" Technology has the potential to raise humanity above its current conditions and limitations. But we can't have it, because we are selfish and short-sighted monkeys. Take a big dump on all the ideals if this delivers the paycheck. "Bus…

The issue is when people try to stack-rank the "badness" of crimes. "Is bankrupting a thousand people through fraud worse than killing someone?" The answer is: it doesn't matter which is worse. Both destroy lives in different ways. Fraud and spam are crimes that ruin lives in their own ways.

I suspect that if someone did bankrupt a thousand people through fraud you are going to have a number of suicides on their hands.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#135

Post by nwatson »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #87
ta999999171 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in North America, you just donate 2% of your ill gotten gains to your local Congressperson!

Doesn't US have an "ill gotten gains" field on the tax form? EDIT: Apparently, your illegal income is regularly taxable, and expenses related to (most) illegal activity are tax-deductible. Cool! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_illegal_income_in_... . "The U.S. Supreme Court in Tellier reiterated that the purpose of the tax code was to tax net income, not punish unlawful behavior." I do appreciate this senti…

The U.S. revenue-side of government isn't encouraging you to start illegal businesses to improve tax receipts, they probably get almost no taxes from that form-box ... it's just much easier later when authorities find out about your illegal activities to convict you of evading taxes that were clearly and easily payable in the past than to convict you of your particular illegal behavior.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#136

Post by auxym »

hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

Are you implying this only happens in Canada? If so, why is that you think?

Genuinely curious, if the US has managed to implement effective anti-tax avoidance solutions, could they be implemented here?

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#137

Post by stef25 »

frandroid wrote: post #31
hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

No wonder the Québec government swooped in and mandated a government POS terminal for the food service industry. :)

They did that here in Belgium too. Didn't take very long for one of the few official manufacturers of said terminals to jailed after presumably installing a few custom features.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#138

Post by dspillett »

auxym wrote: post #136
hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

Are you implying this only happens in Canada? If so, why is that you think? Genuinely curious, if the US has managed to implement effective anti-tax avoidance solutions, could they be implemented here?

> Are you implying this only happens in Canada?

I read that as the OP saying they had specific experience/knowledge of it happing there, rather than intending to imply it happens there more than anywhere else.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#140

Post by senorjazz »

jackcodes wrote: post #118
PappaPatat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first sale of my selfwritten software (about 35 years ago) was for a car driving instructor. The initial sales conversations where difficult. I thought they did not see the advantages of having their planning & bookkeeping in a computer... How wrong I was. It was their "creative bookkeeping" that worried them. When I offered to make that all possible ('zapping' as it is called now), they loved it. Based on their r…

I know that taxes ultimately don’t result in lost schools and hospitals, as it’s never that 1:1, but do you ever think you could have cost your country a hospital, a new road, or a new warhead or whatever?

> or a new warhead

Perhaps they thought they were saving the lives of innocents from collateral damage in wars of aggression?

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