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Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

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Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#61

Post by jonathankoren »

garry wrote: post #18

I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went d…

Serious question:

Given that Badger and his cofounder Byttow famously pocketed almost 20% of the total investment in Secret ($3M each on $35M) shortly before shutting it down[0], what assurances do you have that he’s just not going to pocket the investment again instead of using it to improve the company?

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2015/04/29/psst/

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#62

Post by onion2k »

charliemil4 wrote: post #24
garry wrote: post #18

I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went d…

Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them. If it’s through investments, building tech, do it. The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.

Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them.

And don't sabotage other people's.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#63

Post by wruza »

watwut wrote: post #52
econcon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And dating addicted gamer that also drinks or takes drugs sounds like special kind of hell. It would just make her suffer in bad relationship where she has no meaningfull companion and partner. That happened once they accepted that they'll find any relationship - everyone they were interested in, rejected them and they gave up. >No girl can cure any of these. And guys like this won't change after starting to date a…

This is simply false. Gamers don't start at 27 when they gave up on dating. They just keep playing more and more from pre-teenage years as social thing with friends. Nor do people start drink after they have been without partner for years. Instead, they are friends with peers and drink with them progressively. > Do we always live for ourselves? Do we never try to live up to expectations of our family or friends? Or t…

To make some perspective, you started in a “clueless dad” mode about gaming and then went that route (gamers social grouping, etc) to justify the phenomenon.

There is nothing to justify though. Someone is choosing a partner from a different country, who can fly over for a weekend. It is not “better” or “worse”, it is a selection from a bigger set of beautiful he-dogs, and all-time high expectations. You can see that even not crossing a country border, just look at a small town near a big one. All males in there fall in shadow of any confident big city citizen. With technology, the discussed outcome was inevitable.

I bet that our parent commenter did not speak about NY, Paris or Tokio downtowns.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#64

Post by 1propionyl »

garry wrote: post #18

I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went d…

> I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here.

> ... but don't write the startup off before you actually try the software itself.

Cool. So you want to protect your investment. I get it. But to be honest your comment reads like damage control from someone who is just realizing they might have made a bad investment.

So I'm curious: why did you think this startup was ever a good idea to invest in? To anyone who isn't completely wrapped up in the SV investor culture it sounds foolhardy, naive, and maybe even idiotic on first blush.

Chrys may be a great guy with the best of intentions, but that doesn't mean he's right.

When you say "don't write this startup off" does that mean you believe it will actually help combat depression (i.e. are you that dumb)? Or does that mean you believe it might make you money (i.e. do you think the rest us are that dumb)?

$36B can really dull the mind, huh.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#65

Post by pal_9000 »

1propionyl wrote: post #51

Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or e…

You're absolutely wrong. Technology enables an avenue for easier communication, discovery. It may not be a panacea and not the only solution. But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#66

Post by 1propionyl »

pal_9000 wrote: post #65
1propionyl wrote: post #51

Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or e…

You're absolutely wrong. Technology enables an avenue for easier communication, discovery. It may not be a panacea and not the only solution. But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.

> But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.

Insisting technology _must_ be capable of fixing these problems is naive idiocy. Technology isn't our only means for addressing social issues, and it's certainly not a panacea.

Why should we resort to the newest and least well proven approach to issues that humanity has faced for thousands of years? Do you have my actual justification beyond "it gives me a job?"

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#67

Post by onion2k »

1propionyl wrote: post #51

Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or e…

It's time for us to recognize that we (the tech community) don't have all of the right answers, and it's time for us to reach out and try to learn, and try to participate in fixing the problems we helped create.

Is this like when people in the past said the postal system couldn't ever replace visiting someone, and that the telephone would never replace letters, and that chat apps couldn't beat a phone call..

People in tech (all tech since the beginning of the human race) have believed their inventions will nudge people to do things they might not otherwise do. Better swords and armour encouraged more battles, better farm tools encouraged more farming, better housing encouraged bigger families, better eduction encouraged more inventiveness, and so on. That's what tech is. Today that means Google's adverts push us to click on links and buy things, Facebook's status updates push us to share more, Instagram encourages us to take more selfies and pictures of our dinners, Twitter's retweets make us show people we discovered things they might want to see. The idea that people in tech wouldn't come up with apps that try to fix the lonely people by making them sociable is ridiculous. Apps and tech are all about behaviour manipulation.

And, mostly looking at all the evidence around us, it works really well.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#69

Post by onion2k »

1propionyl wrote: post #66
pal_9000 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely wrong. Technology enables an avenue for easier communication, discovery. It may not be a panacea and not the only solution. But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.

> But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist. Insisting technology _must_ be capable of fixing these problems is naive idiocy. Technology isn't our only means for addressing social issues, and it's certainly not a panacea. Why should we resort to the newest and least well proven approach to issues that humanity has faced for thousands of years? Do you have my actual justification beyond "it gives me a job?"

I don't think someone launching an app stops people using all the other means of addressing their social issues. It's another option, not a replacement option.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#70

Post by 1propionyl »

onion2k wrote: post #67
1propionyl wrote: post #51

Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or e…

It's time for us to recognize that we (the tech community) don't have all of the right answers, and it's time for us to reach out and try to learn, and try to participate in fixing the problems we helped create. Is this like when people in the past said the postal system couldn't ever replace visiting someone, and that the telephone would never replace letters, and that chat apps couldn't beat a phone call.. People i…

> Is this like when people in the past said the postal system couldn't ever replace visiting someone, and that the telephone would never replace letters, and that chat apps couldn't beat a phone call..

This is a very dumb argument and a false analogy.

> The idea that people in tech _wouldn't_ come up with apps that try to fix the lonely people ... is ridiculous.

You're absolutely correct here. But that doesn't mean those apps will actually work or achieve their publicly stated goals.

Also "fix" lonely people? What the fuck? And you want to pretend to criticize behavior modification?

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