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Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

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Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#51

Post by 1propionyl »

Oh good. Another app.

When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem?

The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology.

I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or exacerbated through technology can be resolved by more of it is painfully naive. It's "when all you've got is a hammer..." logic.

New technology won't replace or repair the decline in social centers. New technology won't fix our increasing sense of disconnection with our localities. New technology won't help us engage with local politics (in the sense of trying to do good by collective action).

Building new apps and new technologies isn't a cure-all or necessarily a solution for the problems were facing right now. It's time for us to recognize that we (the tech community) don't have all of the right answers, and it's time for us to reach out and try to learn, and try to participate in fixing the problems we helped create.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#52

Post by watwut »

econcon wrote: post #45
watwut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, leaving abusive or manipulative person is a good idea - you are better off alone. And dating addicted gamer that also drinks or takes drugs sounds like special kind of hell. It would just make her suffer in bad relationship where she has no meaningfull companion and partner. No girl can cure any of these. And guys like this won't change after starting to date a girl - not for long. The idea that sh…

>And dating addicted gamer that also drinks or takes drugs sounds like special kind of hell. It would just make her suffer in bad relationship where she has no meaningfull companion and partner. That happened once they accepted that they'll find any relationship - everyone they were interested in, rejected them and they gave up. >No girl can cure any of these. And guys like this won't change after starting to date a…

This is simply false. Gamers don't start at 27 when they gave up on dating. They just keep playing more and more from pre-teenage years as social thing with friends.

Nor do people start drink after they have been without partner for years. Instead, they are friends with peers and drink with them progressively.

> Do we always live for ourselves? Do we never try to live up to expectations of our family or friends? Or those who believe in us, being on our side in life?

Sure not. But what you want there is a person whose only role is to make you better by making you feel like she expects from you - without getting much in return.

That is not how relationships work, both sides need to have their needs met. Both sides need the other side to give.

Including girls.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#53

Post by speedplane »

econcon wrote: post #45
watwut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, leaving abusive or manipulative person is a good idea - you are better off alone. And dating addicted gamer that also drinks or takes drugs sounds like special kind of hell. It would just make her suffer in bad relationship where she has no meaningfull companion and partner. No girl can cure any of these. And guys like this won't change after starting to date a girl - not for long. The idea that sh…

>And dating addicted gamer that also drinks or takes drugs sounds like special kind of hell. It would just make her suffer in bad relationship where she has no meaningfull companion and partner. That happened once they accepted that they'll find any relationship - everyone they were interested in, rejected them and they gave up. >No girl can cure any of these. And guys like this won't change after starting to date a…

> Do we always live for ourselves? Do we never try to live up to expectations of our family or friends? Or those who believe in us, being on our side in life?

People can of course change over time and be influenced by people around them. However, entering a relationship with another person based on the presumption that you can "change" them is a recipe for relationship disaster.

There are billions of people on this planet. If you're looking for a relationship, you're better off finding one that suits you rather than someone who doesn't and trying to change them into something else.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#54

Post by 1propionyl »

charliemil4 wrote: post #24
garry wrote: post #18

I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went d…

Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them. If it’s through investments, building tech, do it. The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.

> The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.

I thought religion was unpopular here.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#55

Post by 1propionyl »

davidajackson wrote: post #25
charliemil4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them. If it’s through investments, building tech, do it. The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.

I'm curious about whether the most successful products to solve loneliness will be ones that help people connect virtually, versus connect in person. Maybe a healthy balance of both?

"Solve" loneliness. With a "product".

Try to get out of your bubble. To anyone who isn't entirely immersed in that bubble this is absolutely insane talk. It sounds sociopathic and out-of-touch.

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't a problem you can "solve" by engineering. And maybe, just maybe, the solution (if it exists) isn't a "product".

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#57

Post by 1propionyl »

econcon wrote: post #26

Loneliness is because people have convinced themselves that the cost of being with someone is bigger than the reward of being with someone. The immediate cost of being alone is going down. We need to understand, no matter how much a person has read or introspected their behaviour or are kind at their heart - no one will every be able to live up to the expectations of millions of people on internet. This is why relati…

> Loneliness is because people have convinced themselves that the cost of being with someone is bigger than the reward of being with someone.

"I understand the human condition because I studied microeconomics, and other stories you can tell yourself at night."

> How can technology solve it?

Have you considered that maybe it can't?

A power drill is a great tool. That doesn't mean it's well suited to every task.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#58

Post by kerkeslager »

watwut wrote: post #50
kerkeslager wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, divorce rates are going down since 1980 or so. Rates, not just absolute numbers. Okay, apatter's claim without citation was bad enough, but if you're going to directly contradict something someone says, link your damn source! I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying nobody wants your opinion on what the stats are, when we can have the stats themselves!

Given that he opposed me first, if direct contradiction is what requires source, he should do it anyway. I literally dis this to very whether I am right: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-sam...

> Given that he opposed me first, if direct contradiction is what requires source, he should do it anyway.

Uh, no, if you're claiming facts, they require sources, always. I only pointed it out when it became absurd that you thought people would accept your word on faith, since it was clear someone already didn't accept your word.

> I literally dis this to very whether I am right: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-sam....

Ah yes, well, you didn't actually verify that very well, because most of the links I found with that search cite the same meaningless "per 1000 people" stat, and the remaining links contradict each other. Also, given the top link is a divorce lawyer trying to sell their services, I'm really not sure which one of those you thought was a credible source.

Some of us search on other search engines with other search phrases, so you can't just assume that everyone will find what you found. See, the thing about research, is you have to actually read what you link, or you haven't actually done research.

We're all familiar with how to use Google to find sources, but if you want to actually participate in an intelligent debate, you should actually, you know, use Google to find sources, which you have yet to actually do. And it's not clever to tell me to Google it when you didn't actually read what you Googled.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#59

Post by 1propionyl »

kabacha wrote: post #48

In a world where there are literal conferences on how to psychologically abuse people to spend money in your app I feel that I'd never trust any sort of app that aims "help my psychologicall health". Combined that with the fact that this whole "reveal article" has no actual substance and trying to sell me the idea and emotion rather than a feature makes feel that I'm being manipulated already and I hadn't even opened…

It never actually had any credibility for these sorts of deep and complex social problems.

That was just a lie we told ourselves and investors during the heyday where we naively believed we were going to solve all of the world's problems through apps.

It was never real. No one ever actually believed an app could fix loneliness or depression outside of bored investors with too much money and time on their hands and starving startup developers desperate to break even.

And yes, dear HN reader, that likely means YOU.

HN readers love to rightfully talk shit about Gwyneth Paltrow and GOOP, but apparently can't see that many of them are pushing the exact same kind of bullshit for a different audience.

Re: Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

#60

Post by alexmingoia »

watwut wrote: post #50
kerkeslager wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, divorce rates are going down since 1980 or so. Rates, not just absolute numbers. Okay, apatter's claim without citation was bad enough, but if you're going to directly contradict something someone says, link your damn source! I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying nobody wants your opinion on what the stats are, when we can have the stats themselves!

Given that he opposed me first, if direct contradiction is what requires source, he should do it anyway. I literally dis this to very whether I am right: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-sam...

Maybe I’m missing something, but number of divorces per 1,000 people (the “divorce rate”) does not control for marriage. It includes people who don’t get married, which makes the measure meaningless.

I did some quick searching but did not find any statistics on divorce as a percentage of married per capita over time.

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