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I Worked for a Criminal Organization

openmonstervision.github.io

41–50 of 234 posts

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#41
post #39

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

>where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Isn't this super easy to discover if you use any sort of electronic payment? Salons and restaurants might be cash based, but who pays their mechanic in cash?

A lot of non-regular-maintenance jobs are easy & quick to do but break the law - for example, deleting the catalytic converter or EGR from the exhaust system will give your engine better performance and economy, but is illegal since it increases emissions.

Lots of places will do it anyway on a cash job if they think they can get away with it, because it's relatively easy money. A shop replaced my failed catalytic converter ($1200+ replacement) with a straight pipe ($20 pipe and $200 of time) many years ago because they (correctly) assessed me to be a broke-ass student who wouldn't tell on them.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#42
The only substantial difference between this company and, say, Facebook, is that Facebook generally knows how to budget properly. Facebook and other large successful companies try to only commit crimes when they know the profit from doing so exceeds the risk of being caught and punished.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#43
post #17

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361670 None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell. The crime they were actually charged with was using these shell companies to get more IP addresses than they were "entitled" to get. See the indictment at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.scd.250342/...

Thing is... you don’t “get” an IP address. Having ARIN reserve you a netblock in their database doesn’t get you anything that you didn’t have prior to them doing that.

IP “ownership” is not a real thing.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#44

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

Fraud. You didn’t miss it. Everything after that first question were excuses for why it’s ok to break the law.

Which law is being broken? Also (in my personal opinion) criminality should be obvious to a general person, some kind of complex technical illegality may not make the whole company a "criminal organization". A lot of reputed companies like Google get fined on regular basis world over does not make them criminal organizations.

A lot of companies would also willingly break the law depending on the risk tolerance they have, many of those laws result into civil penalties and not jail time for CEO so that also matters.

I was genuinely hoping OP worked from some underground enterprise that provided hitmans to rich people or something. La John Wick style. But thats just the romantic in me.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#45
post #17

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361670 None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell. The crime they were actually charged with was using these shell companies to get more IP addresses than they were "entitled" to get. See the indictment at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.scd.250342/...

> None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell

The fake “Channel Partners” addressed in the article are paragraph 4 of the indictment. The article addresses some of the mechanisms by which they were used to evade legal process for the purpose of concealment, the indictment deals with the fact that they were used for that purpose. It seems preposterous to view those as unrelated.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud. You didn’t miss it. Everything after that first question were excuses for why it’s ok to break the law.

Which law is being broken? Also (in my personal opinion) criminality should be obvious to a general person, some kind of complex technical illegality may not make the whole company a "criminal organization". A lot of reputed companies like Google get fined on regular basis world over does not make them criminal organizations. A lot of companies would also willingly break the law depending on the risk tolerance they h…

Misrepresentation when money or other tangible things are at stake is fraud. There are civil frauds and criminal frauds.

Say you needed to have a room added to your home. You approach a contractor, who talks about his past experience, and offers up several customer and trade references to corroborate this experience. You sign a contract, pay the 50% deposit, and the person disappears and doesn’t respond to your inquiries, nor those of the police.

You later find out that the customers were family members of the contractor, the trade reference was a Delaware corporation owned by the same Nevada corporation that cashed your check. In other words, the entire enterprise was a criminal enterprise constructed to defraud customers, not deliver.

That contrived example is an obvious series of frauds that is obviously a criminal enterprise. It’s easy to understand because the money was stolen. A case like this is a little different because the fraud was basically a scheme to get a constrained resource by lying about material facts to commit the fraud. IANAL, but my guess is the deliberate construction of these legal entities with no meaningful purpose elevated the matter.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#47
post #43
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361670 None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell. The crime they were actually charged with was using these shell companies to get more IP addresses than they were "entitled" to get. See the indictment at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.scd.250342/...

Thing is... you don’t “get” an IP address. Having ARIN reserve you a netblock in their database doesn’t get you anything that you didn’t have prior to them doing that. IP “ownership” is not a real thing.

That's... really irrelevant. The point is that they were using shell companies to trick ARIN into reserving more netblocks than normal.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#48

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

Are these used to inflate records of customer bills for laundering, or to deflate customer bills for tax fraud?

> pockets the unreported tax

I’d assume tax fraud is much more common than money laundering. Maybe drug dealers and the like create enough of a market for “reverse zappers” to exist; not sure.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#50
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Isn't this super easy to discover if you use any sort of electronic payment? Salons and restaurants might be cash based, but who pays their mechanic in cash?

A lot of non-regular-maintenance jobs are easy & quick to do but break the law - for example, deleting the catalytic converter or EGR from the exhaust system will give your engine better performance and economy, but is illegal since it increases emissions. Lots of places will do it anyway on a cash job if they think they can get away with it, because it's relatively easy money. A shop replaced my failed catalytic con…

> A shop replaced my failed catalytic converter ($1200+

> replacement) with a straight pipe ($20 pipe and $200 of

> time) many years ago because they (correctly) assessed me

> to be a broke-ass student who wouldn't tell on them.

The mechanic may have even made even more money by scrapping your catalytic converter.

In the UK, swapping the exhaust out for a straight pipe is a common (illegal) modification for greater performance and sound. To get the car through the MOT, you either need to find somebody willing to "look the other way" or re-weld the original exhaust in place.

I've seen in many scenarios "boy racers" dipping the clutch and coasting the car by the police. If your car is making a sound resembling a Spitfire you're sure to get pulled over, where they'll use a road side test kit and confiscate your car.

Some other popular cheap modifications include completely removing the air-filter (dangerous), stretching tires to create low-profile wheels (extremely dangerous if they let go [0]), putting the car on a diet (ripping out all interior, seats, etc), running contaminated fuel (either diesel/petrol mixes [1] or running farmer's diesel) - the list goes on.

There are also some processes for purposely causing the car to backfire regularly (especially on a down change, with quite large flames) and getting more "bang" from the fuel. At one point we were also experimenting with the idea of using the starter motor strategically to aid engine acceleration - but nothing ever came of it.

[0] We had a car crash on the motorway into the central barrier, which then caused all of the tires to instantly disintegrate - all at ~90 mph (~145 kph).

[1] We once had a vehicle literally explode when unburned fuel collected in the catalytic converter/exhaust and suddenly decide it wanted to be on fire. This in itself wouldn't have been an issue if a) somebody noticed and b) it didn't then ignite the fuel lines.

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