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I Worked for a Criminal Organization

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Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#31

Post by frandroid »

hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

No wonder the Québec government swooped in and mandated a government POS terminal for the food service industry. :)

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#32

Post by ganoushoreilly »

ikeboy wrote: post #21
saber6 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] as far as I can tell. It appears the law in this case feels differently. The owners claimed under legal penalty that they had certain assets (paying customers, needs for IP addressing, etc). These statements appear to have been completely false. Thus, the trial. And yes, lying to ARIN (or any RIR) about your customer base (need for IPv4 addressing) is just plain crappy. IPv4 addressing is a common resource -…

No, they were not charged for any of the things claimed to be crimes in the article. The trial is about different alleged wrongdoings than OP is going on about.

There's also other cases with charges pending, as well as a nasty Divorce case.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#33

Post by ikeboy »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #32
ikeboy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they were not charged for any of the things claimed to be crimes in the article. The trial is about different alleged wrongdoings than OP is going on about.

There's also other cases with charges pending, as well as a nasty Divorce case.

What other charges are there?

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#34

Post by dylan604 »

ikeboy wrote: post #17
Koremat6666 wrote: post #15

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361670 None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell. The crime they were actually charged with was using these shell companies to get more IP addresses than they were "entitled" to get. See the indictment at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.scd.250342/...

Every time I sign up for any kind of banking service (loan,credit,checking,etc), there's a note about by signing the document I am acknowledging that providing false information would be a bad idea. How is it not fraudulent to deceive potential investors by using false user data/stats? I've never read any investor agreements, but I'd assume there's some sort of similar statement/clause.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#35

Post by ikeboy »

dylan604 wrote: post #34
ikeboy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361670 None of the things mentioned here are crimes, as far as I can tell. The crime they were actually charged with was using these shell companies to get more IP addresses than they were "entitled" to get. See the indictment at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.scd.250342/...

Every time I sign up for any kind of banking service (loan,credit,checking,etc), there's a note about by signing the document I am acknowledging that providing false information would be a bad idea. How is it not fraudulent to deceive potential investors by using false user data/stats? I've never read any investor agreements, but I'd assume there's some sort of similar statement/clause.

>How is it not fraudulent to deceive potential investors by using false user data/stats?

Where did that happen? It certainly isn't alleged by OP.

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#36

Post by nitrogen »

hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

Are these used to inflate records of customer bills for laundering, or to deflate customer bills for tax fraud?

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#37

Post by dragonwriter »

Koremat6666 wrote: post #15

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

> May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ?

From the description in the article, obstruction of justice, at a minimum, possibly also with the intent of furthering other crimes and civil wrongs by the firm or it's customers.

> Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can.

Many companies will do anything within the law to do this, which is, of course, not a crime. But “whatever way they can” is a crime.

> A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley.

Yes, obstruction of justice is a different crime than murder or kidnapping. It's just as real of a crime.

> Is having shell companies a crime ?

No, but using them fraudulently can be a crime and/or a civil wrong, and which has been involved in both civil liability already established against the firm and CEO in question and which is seems to be a key part of the mechanism of the fraud involved in the 20-count federal criminal indictment against them. [0]

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/fraud-case-in-charleston-s-c-sh...

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#38

Post by dragonwriter »

ikeboy wrote: post #21
saber6 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] as far as I can tell. It appears the law in this case feels differently. The owners claimed under legal penalty that they had certain assets (paying customers, needs for IP addressing, etc). These statements appear to have been completely false. Thus, the trial. And yes, lying to ARIN (or any RIR) about your customer base (need for IPv4 addressing) is just plain crappy. IPv4 addressing is a common resource -…

No, they were not charged for any of the things claimed to be crimes in the article. The trial is about different alleged wrongdoings than OP is going on about.

> No, they were not charged for any of the things claimed to be crimes in the article.

Both a fraudulent system of shell companies and knowingly profiting by enabling spam are alleged on the article, and both have been the subject of criminal charges against the firm and it's CEO. [0]

[0] https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/05/a-tough-week-for-ip-addr...

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#39

Post by gruez »

hackermailman wrote: post #13

Not uncommon in some cities in Canada to find out you're working for a criminal outfit if writing point of sale/restaurant software where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'. Profitek was busted once, InfoSpec Systems, zappers are in high demand

>where they want you to produce one receipt for the customer and a different one for the restaurant or salon or shady car mechanic that then pockets the unreported tax aka a 'zapper'.

Isn't this super easy to discover if you use any sort of electronic payment? Salons and restaurants might be cash based, but who pays their mechanic in cash?

Re: I Worked for a Criminal Organization

#40

Post by Spooky23 »

Koremat6666 wrote: post #15

May be I missed it but can someone tell me what was the crime the company was committing ? Almost any company will have defensive strategies such as stalling LEOs and Warrants in whatever way they can. A lot of this is not really "crime" as in kidnapping people or shooting people dead in some alley. Is having shell companies a crime ? I know a ton of bay area "startups" than engage in these sort of tricks to maximize…

Fraud.

You didn’t miss it. Everything after that first question were excuses for why it’s ok to break the law.

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