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Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#221

Post by tonmoy »

gpu_explorer wrote: post #28

These comments do surprise me yes. The amount of conflict in the remarks is because both parties are right. It's very wonderful for Jeff Bezos to donate $10B dollars. But also it's right about private jets, which generate much carbon pollution. It's fair to say that everyone has to do their part against climate problems. I for one make personal sacrifices yes. Less meat, less consuming, trying for local purchases as…

Local purchases may not be as green as you think. Only a small percent of carbon footprint from produce is due to transport. A centralized production could be more efficient and less carbon (and land) consuming overall.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#222

Post by GreenJelloShot »

tetris11 wrote: post #186
smallgovt wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ultimately this cynicism is born out of envy/jealousy for the good will that such a donation engenders. As you've pointed out, any logical analysis would conclude that, even in the most extreme cases, there's still a sizable positive benefit to society. People have a problem with "undeserved" good will as if good will is some scarce resource that's limited in supply. I think the reality is they're envious.

Angry. The word you are looking for is angry. Its just a constant reminder that we live at the mercy of these elites, that our tax dollars don't appear to have any effect in bringing about the change that we want because these scumbags have rewritten the laws in their favour so that the money only concentrates towards them. What can we do about it? Absolutely nothing, but I'm sure as hell not going to pander to their…

Is there anything Bezos could do at this point that would NOT make you angry?

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#223

Post by oh_sigh »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #203
oh_sigh wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of tax revenue do you think goes to bombing civilians in Afghanistan?

I think 20% of tax revenue and 50% of discretionary budget goes to the military. I think this is too much and that there are areas with much better ROI where this money could be spent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

Ok, let's continue on. What percentage of the military budget do you think goes to bombing civilians in Afghanistan?

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#224

Post by loeg »

gok wrote: post #214
loeg wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he can't. That's exactly what the lower 30% limit is on — gifts of appreciated capital. If he sold the shares first, he could claim up to the higher 50% limit. But he'd owe capital gains taxes on the sales, which is almost certainly more than the additional deduction.

He can only deduct up to 30% of his AGI, but also by giving the shares to a foundation he does not realize any of those gains. So the entire donation effectively becomes tax free.

This isn't responsive to earlier comments in this thread and doesn't support (or retract) your earlier wrong statement.

You previously stated, "Bezos can avoid that limit," with "that" referring to either OP's or my statement about AGI deductibility limits, which is incorrect.

I think you might now be trying to make a statement about being able to claim capital gains as an AGI deduction without paying taxes on those capital gains? Which is true enough, but not responsive; it's just a fact that was never in dispute.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#225

Post by loeg »

gok wrote: post #206
ukoki wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't make money this way Are you sure? What about something like this: 1. Buy art for $1M 2. Get your friends to bid up the price of the art by selling other works from the artist to each other at inflated valuations 3. Donate art to art gallery with a valuation of $10M 4. Deduct $10M donation from your taxes

A) that's fraud B) you still need $10 million of income to deduct C) this isn't making money. You can't directly deduct a collectible or security you donate. You can give it away without realizing any capital gains however.

(A) Yes.

(B) Replace $10 mill with any figure up to 30% of your actual income. The figures are illustrative, not binding.

(C) Consider not doing the fraud vs the fraud. If you and your buddy both do the fraud, you only expend the purchase price but deduct the higher price. As a result you have generated a deduction from thin air. As long as the higher price multiplied by your marginal tax rate is greater than the lower purchase price, you've made money. So at, say, a hypothetical 50% bracket, you need to inflate it by 100% to break even. At a 25% bracket, you'd need to inflate it by 300% to break even.

It's a profit, but it's definitely fraud and seems pretty obvious. It's essentially a pump and dump scheme, but instead of selling the inflated asset, you donate it while it's still inflated and deduct the difference against income.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#226

Post by dantheman »

BurningFrog wrote: post #122
inerte wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, three things. First of all, I searched and couldn't find he's actually giving $10b. What I mean is that I don't know if the $10b accounts for any Amazon investments / costs. Second, it's not -$10b if he's getting a tax break for some of this. It's $7.6b as someone else mentioned. I know, still a lot of money! But he's not loosing $10b from his fortune. Third, in this case you happen to think it's a win for soci…

> The lack of accountability for the influence billionaires have in our society should be a concern The thing is, a lot of us like that what people do with their own money is not accountable to the government. I think it's essential that not all of society is under control by a single central power. EDIT: As someone said on Twitter - "Say what you want about billionaires, I doubt any of them would have decided to giv…

It's always interesting that often those who yell the loudest about private power / monopolies (even when they're not), are always advocating for more power in the monopoly of violence - the government.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#227

Post by dantheman »

loeg wrote: post #176
inerte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I think GP is expressing skepticism that the total $10B figure comes from Bezos' personal fortune rather than being a spending plan for AMZN's business. The article doesn't exactly make this clear. Yep, more along these lines. Lots of people are latching on the "tax break" but I thought I made a larger point about where the $10b figure is coming from. That's part of my cynicism: Bezos gets to write a gre…

It's also quite possible it's not $10b upfront, but rather a non-binding commitment to contribute $10b over some number of years.

I'd bet it will be over a number years -- it'd be next to impossible to spend 10b in year in any reasonably responsible way.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#228

Post by gok »

loeg wrote: post #225
gok wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) that's fraud B) you still need $10 million of income to deduct C) this isn't making money. You can't directly deduct a collectible or security you donate. You can give it away without realizing any capital gains however.

(A) Yes. (B) Replace $10 mill with any figure up to 30% of your actual income. The figures are illustrative, not binding. (C) Consider not doing the fraud vs the fraud. If you and your buddy both do the fraud, you only expend the purchase price but deduct the higher price. As a result you have generated a deduction from thin air. As long as the higher price multiplied by your marginal tax rate is greater than the low…

Seems like you'd just take the $9M of profit and pay the gains rate on it and at least be on good terms with the IRS if not the FBI/SEC. :)

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#229

Post by loeg »

gok wrote: post #228
loeg wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(A) Yes. (B) Replace $10 mill with any figure up to 30% of your actual income. The figures are illustrative, not binding. (C) Consider not doing the fraud vs the fraud. If you and your buddy both do the fraud, you only expend the purchase price but deduct the higher price. As a result you have generated a deduction from thin air. As long as the higher price multiplied by your marginal tax rate is greater than the low…

Seems like you'd just take the $9M of profit and pay the gains rate on it and at least be on good terms with the IRS if not the FBI/SEC. :)

Yeah, the only reason to charity-wash it would be if you thought it was more likely to go uncaught. I suspect you'd be caught in either version of the fraud. :-)

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#230

Post by KerryJones »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #179
KerryJones wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and you stop coal from getting to a small town that used it to run it's power supplies, or heat, because you didn't offer a solution and suddenly removed it, or it jacks up the price for low-income/mid-income people. You need a solution, not just "shut down the company", people rely on those jobs. It needs to be an easing-out process.

That’s your job as a citizen to vote for representation that implements such policies. Don’t like the policies, run for office and vote. I agree with you these people need to be taken care of (subsidizing energy efficiency programs, such as insulating their homes and installing heat pumps to get them off of coal or oil for thermal needs), but that’s the responsibility of their government (at the moment; I would of co…

That's an incredibly optimistic perspective, as any minority will tell you.

To argue that businesses should shutdown current solutions without creating new ones lacks a huge amount of responsibility and will lead to mass chaos. New solutions to be discussed and in place before or immediately after dissolution that could put thousands on the street, in poverty or medical care.

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