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Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

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Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#51
This is a pretty novel use of the low-profile Choc switches. I like it.

QMK supports ARM very strangely, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. They use ChibiOS as an RTOS to basically schedule USB code alongside QMK, and then they get ChibiOS's USB support for free. (Note that on many of these ARM chips, the USB is actually handled in hardware; you just need to get the right bytes into the right memory addresses at the right time. You don't have to be awake at the exact instant to toggle a USB pin at exactly the instant the protocol demands. So it works quite well; ChibiOS is not preempting your matrix scan at random times or anything.)

Having said that, I think it's reasonable to write your own firmware. QMK feels very very legacy right now. It is hard to use modern dev tools to work on the code (like clangd), and the newer chips are supported in a very janky manner because of assumptions made for the original AVRs that it ran on. I always thought it was weird that the boards that OLKB use are among the most jankily-supported, even though they fund the development of QMK. They also don't really maintain all of the in-tree examples, so you'll copy someone else's outdated keyboard code and be starting with code that barely works. (I made an STM32F103-based keyboard recently, and the example code actually has their own debouncing algorithm, rather than calling QMK's newish built-in debouncing algorithm. So you get latency by default, although it hasn't bothered me at all so I haven't fixed it.)

The model of flashing firmware to change the key layout also seems crazy to me, in an era where you can easily enumerate as a flash drive and just drag a JSON-encoded keymap onto it to adjust the layout. (Or just edit it live, a la CircuitPython.) I watch new users of QMK-based keyboards struggle and give up on a somewhat regular basis. Seems strange to me.

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#52

This is a pretty novel use of the low-profile Choc switches. I like it. QMK supports ARM very strangely, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. They use ChibiOS as an RTOS to basically schedule USB code alongside QMK, and then they get ChibiOS's USB support for free. (Note that on many of these ARM chips, the USB is actually handled in hardware; you just need to get the right bytes into the right memory a…

QMK worked well for me, using supported controllers but entirely custom odd-ball hardware designs. It handles the somewhat annoying bits (USB protocols etc.) while allowing you to completely rip out most of the built-in logic (matrix code, scanning, layers, ...) without touching the tree. It also has a lot of kitchen sink functionality, although some really weird omissions as well (the only way built into QMK to receive free-form communication from the host is through virtual serial port). Overall it's kinda neat for that specific niche.

But as a "framework for [basic] customizable keyboards" it is imho a poor choice because of those omissions and what you mention.

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#53
post #12
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that people want some kind of textile feedback for what they type—which is why SelfieType likely would only be just a “cool technology”

Like the feedback of smartphones? Especially those prior to the very recent vibrate on touch People want to type, and they want to do it quickly. Tactile feedback is nice... but most people do not engage in typing for the fun of it. The primary concerns for this are input reliability, ease & speed of setup, and learning curve. You aren't using such a thing to replace your desktop keyboard. You're using it to replace…

Smartphones work to some extent because they are relatively light and you hold them in your hand. This means it is very much not a rigid surface. Typing on a projective keyboard on e.g. a desk is very unpleasant, because you are pecking a hard, rigid surface with your fingers.

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#54
post #2

Saw this alternate entry device announced at CES: https://www.charachorder.com/ SelfieType, using a camera to watch your fingers, looks even more futuristic: https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-selfie-type-demo-vi...

Charachorder looks like a modern attempt to produce something similar to the Datahand (availability was always limited, and the company has gone defunct by now): http://www.atpm.com/7.05/datahand.shtml The biggest issue with these devices is the huge learning curve upfront. You need to invest a lot of time to get to a point where the productivity / speed claims get true. I learned Dvorak many years ago, and I would n…

There actually is a modern (almost) equivalent of the DataHand called the Azeron gamepad [1], and there are some DIY 3D printed DataHand replicas too [2][3].

If you want to type really fast (>200 WPM) and don't mind a VERY steep learning curve, then getting a $95 Georgi keyboard [4] and learning steno [5] is probably the way to go.

[1]: https://www.azeron.eu/

[2]: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard

[3]: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0

[4]: https://www.gboards.ca/product/georgi

[5]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#55
It's good to see these smaller gaming keyboards getting more common. I never got why people who play low mouse-sensitivity games like CS:GO use full-size keyboards that limit the space they have available for a big mousepad.

An imo more interesting ergonomic gaming keyboard is the Azeron [1]. It's based on the old DataHand keyboards (which were way ahead of their time) and I hope that this kind of ergonomic layout becomes more common. I don't own one myself (I use a HHKB Pro 2), but not having to move your hands at all when typing seems pretty comfortable.

[1]: https://www.azeron.eu/

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#56
I'm not a gamer so I'm having a hard time visualizing how this thing is intended to be used. Is this for your left hand?

[UPDATE] Based on a link in another comment I went to this site:

https://www.azeron.eu/

It's really weird. Every image shows a device that looks like it is intended to be used with your left hand, except for one tiny image of someone actually using the thing. In that image, they are using it with their right hand, and the device in that image looks like a mirror image of every other image on the page. WTF?

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#57
post #56

I'm not a gamer so I'm having a hard time visualizing how this thing is intended to be used. Is this for your left hand? [UPDATE] Based on a link in another comment I went to this site: https://www.azeron.eu/ It's really weird. Every image shows a device that looks like it is intended to be used with your left hand, except for one tiny image of someone actually using the thing. In that image, they are using it with t…

It is for your left hand since most gamers use the WASD keys for movement. Here's a video of a similar design being used to play Quake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyVSANPnLlg

[EDIT] The Azeron comes in both right- and left-handed versions so that's why some images show a right hand. The Azeron works similarly to one half of a DataHand keyboard.

This old infomercial shows how they're used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UajuYCIyk

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#58
post #56

I'm not a gamer so I'm having a hard time visualizing how this thing is intended to be used. Is this for your left hand? [UPDATE] Based on a link in another comment I went to this site: https://www.azeron.eu/ It's really weird. Every image shows a device that looks like it is intended to be used with your left hand, except for one tiny image of someone actually using the thing. In that image, they are using it with t…

It is for your left hand since most gamers use the WASD keys for movement. Here's a video of a similar design being used to play Quake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyVSANPnLlg [EDIT] The Azeron comes in both right- and left-handed versions so that's why some images show a right hand. The Azeron works similarly to one half of a DataHand keyboard. This old infomercial shows how they're used https://www.youtube.com/…

Thanks.

> most gamers use the WASD keys for movement

What are they doing with their right hand? (Hm, something tells me I'm going to be sorry I asked ;-)

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#59

This is a pretty novel use of the low-profile Choc switches. I like it. QMK supports ARM very strangely, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. They use ChibiOS as an RTOS to basically schedule USB code alongside QMK, and then they get ChibiOS's USB support for free. (Note that on many of these ARM chips, the USB is actually handled in hardware; you just need to get the right bytes into the right memory a…

> The model of flashing firmware to change the key layout also seems crazy to me, in an era where you can easily enumerate as a flash drive and just drag a JSON-encoded keymap onto it to adjust the layout. (Or just edit it live, a la CircuitPython.)

Are there any keyboards that have that functionality? I know Logitech allows you to save macro key info to the hardware. However, last I saw that was only for specific macro keys, not all keys like QMK.

Re: Sherbet: An Ergonomic Gaming Keypad

#60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is for your left hand since most gamers use the WASD keys for movement. Here's a video of a similar design being used to play Quake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyVSANPnLlg [EDIT] The Azeron comes in both right- and left-handed versions so that's why some images show a right hand. The Azeron works similarly to one half of a DataHand keyboard. This old infomercial shows how they're used https://www.youtube.com/…

Thanks. > most gamers use the WASD keys for movement What are they doing with their right hand? (Hm, something tells me I'm going to be sorry I asked ;-)

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