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Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

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Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#51

Post by blompa »

Gatsky wrote: post #50

There is a sad history in Australia of treating the indigenous population as nothing more than a bunch of savages. This had its origins as a kind of reality distortion to justify taking their land and in some cases, exterminating them entirely as happened in Tasmania. There is still this perverse incentive today, since acknowledging that there was a full blown civilisation with a very long history present before Engl…

Although the rest of what you say is true, it's actually a myth[0] that all Tasmanian Aboriginals were killed off (something that Tasmanian Aboriginals find frustrating in itself).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#52

Post by geeostation »

Gatsky wrote: post #50

There is a sad history in Australia of treating the indigenous population as nothing more than a bunch of savages. This had its origins as a kind of reality distortion to justify taking their land and in some cases, exterminating them entirely as happened in Tasmania. There is still this perverse incentive today, since acknowledging that there was a full blown civilisation with a very long history present before Engl…

Rural Australian whites were shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago :(

back on topic, we are still discovering new things about the aboriginal civilisation https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-19/fire-reveals-further-...

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#53

Post by retsibsi »

geeostation wrote: post #52
Gatsky wrote: post #50

There is a sad history in Australia of treating the indigenous population as nothing more than a bunch of savages. This had its origins as a kind of reality distortion to justify taking their land and in some cases, exterminating them entirely as happened in Tasmania. There is still this perverse incentive today, since acknowledging that there was a full blown civilisation with a very long history present before Engl…

Rural Australian whites were shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago :( back on topic, we are still discovering new things about the aboriginal civilisation https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-19/fire-reveals-further-...

> shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago

Is this really true? I know there's a terrible history of massacres and unpunished murders, but was that sort of thing really going on so recently?

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#54

Post by Perenti »

retsibsi wrote: post #53
geeostation wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural Australian whites were shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago :( back on topic, we are still discovering new things about the aboriginal civilisation https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-19/fire-reveals-further-...

> shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago Is this really true? I know there's a terrible history of massacres and unpunished murders, but was that sort of thing really going on so recently?

Yes. The government paid a bounty in the Northern Territory for myall (wild aboriginal people) scalps until well into the 20th century.

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#55

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

Gatsky wrote: post #50

There is a sad history in Australia of treating the indigenous population as nothing more than a bunch of savages. This had its origins as a kind of reality distortion to justify taking their land and in some cases, exterminating them entirely as happened in Tasmania. There is still this perverse incentive today, since acknowledging that there was a full blown civilisation with a very long history present before Engl…

Trying to phrase this delicately: is there such a thing as a non-full-blown civilization in your view? Or is an uncontacted tribe in the jungle equally "civilized" as the ancient Romans or Chinese?

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#56

Post by retsibsi »

Perenti wrote: post #54
retsibsi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago Is this really true? I know there's a terrible history of massacres and unpunished murders, but was that sort of thing really going on so recently?

Yes. The government paid a bounty in the Northern Territory for myall (wild aboriginal people) scalps until well into the 20th century.

I interpreted 'few decades ago' to mean, roughly, within 30-40 years or so. Second half of the 20th century at the very least. (I'm not being pedantic for the fun of it, let alone because I want to downplay the atrocities that have been committed. I want to know if I'm ignorant of some important recent history; if not, I guess I want to point out that our recent history isn't quite as bad as the parent comment seemed to indicate.)

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#57

Post by fizzbucket »

Perenti wrote: post #54
retsibsi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shooting Aboriginals like Animals few decades ago Is this really true? I know there's a terrible history of massacres and unpunished murders, but was that sort of thing really going on so recently?

Yes. The government paid a bounty in the Northern Territory for myall (wild aboriginal people) scalps until well into the 20th century.

Sorry, what's your source for this?

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#58

Post by fit2rule »

crispinb wrote: post #33
fit2rule wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does indeed refer to the indigenous people of Australia, and is a general term used by many indigenous people who were displaced by colonisation in Australia, the USA and Canada. Australian Aboriginal People use this term freely - I believe it is politically leveraged in a contemporary context to indicate alignment with other displaced peoples around the world. Euro-Australians are generally not as content with th…

I haven't once heard 'First Nations People' used on the ground other than by visiting speakers (usually from overseas). Indigenous & Koorie are the most common terms used here (I live in the Northern Rivers - Bundjalung country).

Well, I learned it from my FNP relatives, who much prefer it over "Aborigine" or "Indigenous" - as these terms have become very loaded, and there is the desire to indicate that the people who were displaced by European colonisation were indeed the first sovereign nation on the continent. YMMV.

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#59

Post by fit2rule »

sigstoat wrote: post #35
basicplus2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their stories were essential for survival in finding food and their way across 1000's of miles of open land to different reaources. If they were wrong they would die. I met and sat and talked with indiginous people in fitzroy crossing who walked in from Adelaide across the centre of Australian deserts by the use of their stories.

uh. not sure what claim you're trying to imply here? you've provided what I see as an even more profound example of selection bias. the folks who needed an oral tradition to stay alive, and were failed by said oral tradition _died_ and weren't here for you to meet.

All literature is subject to the bias you seem to think invalidates these peoples' right to determination. "All lost knowledge is invalid, or else it would have persisted" is, essentially, an imperialist perspective. Knowledge lost because of invasion isn't made less valuable to those who perpetuated it before they were wiped out by colonialists.

Re: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?

#60

Post by fit2rule »

2019-nCoV wrote: post #28
fit2rule wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its related to the kinship system: https://sydney.edu.au/about-us/vision-and-values/our-aborigi... There is a recent paper which dives into this in more detail and reveals the surprising alignment with modern crypto principles based on a more rigorous analysis, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. It is frustratingly difficult topic to search for... Essentially, clans and tribes would teach their representative…

It's pure aggrandisation to compare such rudimental human behaviour with crypto key exchange.

Well, that's certainly a considered opinion, however there has been serious scientific and academic attention given to the subject, and the conclusion is that things were a lot more advanced than we modern Euro-Australians are willing to admit. It certainly would invalidate the contemporary narrative of them being 'a primitive peoples' ..
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