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Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

asia.nikkei.com

371–380 of 460 posts

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#371
post #18

Article praises Tesla's custom AI chip. It is something many criticize as a waste of development resources, while they could have used off-the-shelf components for the same task. Tesla's real advantage is their battery production. No one else can compete with them on battery price or production volume at a similar quality: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/10/teslas-competitors-play-catc...

plus superchargers, engine efficiency, not being held back by supporting legacy car service (aka dealer profit center), no dealers, billions more miles to train their ml models on self driving, customer satisfaction

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#372
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries are a commodity, so I doubt Tesla would want to reduce themselves to an OEM and shrink their margins. Their energy business might eventually be bigger than their automotive one, but either way I think they will continue selling vertically integrated products.

Are batteries a commodity or are we just assuming that?

batteries are absolutely not a commodity at this time. every other manufacturer is held back by not enough battery capacity. Even the biggest companies are held back.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#373
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just production, but is also the chemistry. Tesla has the lowest amount of cobalt and nickel in their batteries of any battery manufacturer in the world. It makes their batteries cheaper, but also use less rare earth minerals (which are difficult to get ahold of at their scales). Tesla isn't sharing their chemistry, which is demonstrably better than anything LG Chem or Samsung, etc has been able to come up w…

No one _wants_ Tesla's chemistry. Tesla is the only automaker using the NCA chemistry. Sure, they're improving NCA quite admirably, but every other automaker would rather use and develop NMC. Traditional automakers would rather have batteries that don't easily overheat or catch fire when damaged (NMC) than cheaper batteries (NCA).

tesla has proven by time that their batteries are excellent, last longer than competitors and have superior battery heating, cooling, and safety systems. Any car can catch on fire (they are all designed and built by humans).

It's just one example, but here is a new porsche ev that caught fire https://electrek.co/2020/02/17/porsche-taycan-fire-burning-g.... Does porsche use nmc batteries? What is the problem with nca, where from experience the overall product is superior to all comers?

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#374
post #77
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery production seems like a problem that can be solved right now with money. VW and Toyota could partner with a 3rd party (like Tesla and Panasonic) and build factories. Custom silicon seems like a much harder problem for VM/Toyota. Unless a supplier can build something for them I don’t see either company innovating like Tesla. Basically Tesla’s secret sauce is the Tech not the EV components.

> Unless a supplier can build something for them I don’t see either company innovating like Tesla. Mobileye?

tesla used mobileye early, then intel bought mobileye so t doesn't use them anymore

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the market really spoken, though? If it's literally impossible to buy an EV that doesn't have all these gimmicky screens and AI features in 'em, then there's no way for the market to actually speak .

That might be the case in the EV space, but the ICE space is pretty well documented. All the major car brands are striving to increase the infotainment segment of their cars more and more. Compare a 2020 Camry to a 2008 one. You almost can't buy a car without at least a 6" screen for the infotainment outside of the cars trying extra hard to appeal to the budget market.

Mazda is currently purging touchscreens from their vehicle lineup, which is, IMO, the correct approach to in-car UX.

I feel strongly enough about it that I'd support a regulatory approach for eliminating touchscreens in cars.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#376
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that was the case, it wouldn't surprise me that might have something to do with the reliability of early CDs across a wide range of temperature conditions and use given vibrations, potholes, etc.

Yea ESP didn't come about until the 90's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_skip_protection

Even then it could be horrible on bad roads where it doesn't get a chance to skip ahead.

It's also a lot harder to change a CD while you're driving than a tape. And until CD burners were around you couldn't do mixed tapes for road trips on CDs.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet, Tesla costumers constantly poll as the most satisfied of all new car owners. I wonder what the demographics are exactly of people who buy Model 3's, is it their first $40k+ vehicle? One thing is abundantly clear, the people who are super excited about "new" tech in Teslas aren't following motor news. People seem to have no clue whatsoever that a lot of the tech you can get in a Tesla exists in other cars a…

What is the marketing and hype that tesla is doing? they don't have paid ads. The make announcements and blog posts. Meanwhile, every other legacy car company pays millions a year in paid ads, my local dealers must spend 100k plus a year. What car has the web browser like my tesla that lets me use tesla-waze? What car has the apps that tesla does? Sure, there are some cars with a few things. No electric car until thi…

> What is the marketing and hype that tesla is doing? they don't have paid ads.

That is exactly my point, yet their announcements always make it to the tech press, because they are the darling of the tech world.

> Meanwhile, every other legacy car company pays millions a year in paid ads

When was the last time you saw an ad for a Mercedes S-class, Audi A8 or BMW 7-series?

I'm betting never, because those companies don't really advertise their most advanced cars to a mass market. And when they advertise them, they highlight the luxury and sophistication, and shut up about all the tech. So people generally don't know about all the stuff they have, and those cars are loaded.

> Sure, there are some cars with a few things.

I don't think you know what the state of the art is among the other car companies. Mercedes launched automatic lane changes before Tesla did, for example. Audi had stop&go cruise control before Tesla even launched Model S. BMW has had night vision pedestrian detection for years, Teslas don't have that. You can't even get a HUD on any Tesla, yet pretty much every other car brand offers that as an option on some of their models.

> No electric car until this year

That's a bit unfair considering the other car makers haven't really put out any electric cars with the same looks and features as their existing gas cars before now.

> 6 years ahead, some specifics:

1) Yeah, I already read the article that this post was about, not just the HN comments.

2) There are zero specifics in that article, it talks about a single thing, and that is that the core processing unit of Teslas are way ahead of the competition. Cool, but not exactly informative or specific.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla sold 367,500 cars in 2019 (as of mid-January) Tesla's market capitalization is $93 billion, compared to $50 billion for General Motors and $37 billion for Ford No other car company is going to be buying them out unless they crash very very badly

A result of the cancer that is continuously floating silicon valley companies in perpetuity despite them not making a profit for years. Tesla is overvalued simply by name. Same with Apple. Autonomous driving is still years out and their custom AI chip apparently doesn't do much in the way of helping that yet.

Apple is an undervalued stock. Their Price / Revenue ration is <5x

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#379
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a heuristic not a rule.

Is it? Getting the spacing down so its not noticeable by humans is doing manufacturing and assembly with tolerances measured in whole millimeters. It’s easily the largest possible tolerances allowed within the manufacture and assembly of the car. It should be some of the easiest manufacturing and assembly to be done. If they can’t manage tolerances measured in millimeters, how can they manage manufacturing and assemb…

This is like saying they must not have computer chips in the car because of door tolerances and yet clearly they do. Maybe they just don't care about exterior fit and finish?

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you this is mainly a fluff piece and must be taken with a grain of salt. I also agree that Tesla overcomplexifies some aspects of their cars and I would appreciate a simpler efficient design. After all, its the simplicity of an electric drivetrain that appealed to me. That being said, I'm puzzled when you say its mediocre in comparison. My 3 got smashed and I have a Mercedes replacement for a few days du…

Prices here are incomparable to the US due to tax, but a model S starts at 90k if you accept it being only available in white (nobody does at that price). If you pick any other color, reasonable rims and a "luxury interior" as you would expect on cars in this price range it's 110k to 120k euro. That's more than a full option BMW 5 series or Audi A6 and comparable to a very high-end Audi A8 or BMW 7 series. Not sure a…

Yes. The A and B class Mercedes are like they're made by a different manufacturer compared to the S class or something like the Mercedes-AMG GT.
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