Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 460 posts

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#351

Post by nwallin »

falcolas wrote: post #346
jayd16 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a heuristic not a rule.

Is it? Getting the spacing down so its not noticeable by humans is doing manufacturing and assembly with tolerances measured in whole millimeters. It’s easily the largest possible tolerances allowed within the manufacture and assembly of the car. It should be some of the easiest manufacturing and assembly to be done. If they can’t manage tolerances measured in millimeters, how can they manage manufacturing and assemb…

> Is it?

Yes.

Internal combustion engines require intense tolerances. If your cylinder head is 1mm out of spec you're going to have serious problems.

But if the wire winding bundle for the electric motor is 5mm out of spec? You'll be fine.

The areas in a Tesla where tolerances are actually important- the batteries and PCBs- are subject to completely different engineering practices. Nobody's going to get cross trained from fitting door panels to placing SMCs... which is done by a robot anyway.

Do you (literally) kick the tires of a car before you buy it?

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#352

Post by rootusrootus »

SEJeff wrote: post #124
KaiserPro wrote: post #48

This is grand, apart from the build quality of the mechanics is ~10 years behind. Go to a tesla showroom, Look at the doors of the model three. Note that they don't line up. Look at the paint job, notice that there are bumps and chips, especailly on the edges of the doors. This is on a _demo_ car, stuck in a showroom. these should be perfect. Even a budget Kia has better build quality than this. Its not the isolated…

A lot of the tech in the Tesla vehicles is truly innovative. Look at the seemingly simple cooling bottle they use, which is the best in the entire automotive industry (and patented by them): https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-3s-superbottle-easter-e... I keep hearing people talk about fit and finish problems with Tesla vehicles, but I simply don't see it. I was so paranoid when I took delivery of mine that I litera…

It's still pretty variable, actually. Mine is pretty good (built 9/19), with only a few discernible misalignment. But other people who have taken delivery in just the last couple months have had terrible alignment. Maybe most are perfectly acceptable, but it is incorrect to suggest it is a completely solved problem.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#353

Post by rootusrootus »

whoanow wrote: post #314
threeseed wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall Tesla's customer satisfaction is really, really high That's because most of the owners have new cars. Wait until they need to have their car serviced by Tesla or until their batteries degrade and are subject to a forced OTA "upgrade" that removes capacity i.e. Model S. https://electrek.co/2019/10/04/tesla-software-updat-battery-...

I've had mine serviced a couple times, and it's been an absolute pleasure compared to my Audi or Porsche.

There are horror stories as recently as today in r/teslamotors. Some of the service centers are quite good, some are just terrible.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#354

Post by rootusrootus »

sliken wrote: post #298
KaiserPro wrote: post #48

This is grand, apart from the build quality of the mechanics is ~10 years behind. Go to a tesla showroom, Look at the doors of the model three. Note that they don't line up. Look at the paint job, notice that there are bumps and chips, especailly on the edges of the doors. This is on a _demo_ car, stuck in a showroom. these should be perfect. Even a budget Kia has better build quality than this. Its not the isolated…

Did you personally see this? Or are you just repeating what you saw somewhere. I gave my model 3 a close look before I bought it and found none of the mentioned problems.

There have been some pretty egregious examples posted in the last month or so on r/teslamotors. So it still happens, though I don't know why. Mine is basically fine, though I'd say it isn't quite up to the level of fit and finish as my Camaro.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#355

Post by rootusrootus »

nwallin wrote: post #351
falcolas wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Getting the spacing down so its not noticeable by humans is doing manufacturing and assembly with tolerances measured in whole millimeters. It’s easily the largest possible tolerances allowed within the manufacture and assembly of the car. It should be some of the easiest manufacturing and assembly to be done. If they can’t manage tolerances measured in millimeters, how can they manage manufacturing and assemb…

> Is it? Yes. Internal combustion engines require intense tolerances. If your cylinder head is 1mm out of spec you're going to have serious problems. But if the wire winding bundle for the electric motor is 5mm out of spec? You'll be fine. The areas in a Tesla where tolerances are actually important- the batteries and PCBs- are subject to completely different engineering practices. Nobody's going to get cross trained…

Engines aren't built on the body assembly line, they are also subject to completely different engineering practices, and have their own set of workers. And robots, too!

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#356

Post by rootusrootus »

primrose wrote: post #311
clouddrover wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, miraculously, the Bolt is cheaper. The Bolt is the best value for money EV in the world at the moment. It's untouchable in price for range.

Recognizing traffic lights is worth more than the cost difference.

As someone whose car recognizes traffic lights (though not with perfect accuracy), it is the most useless feature I've ever seen. Right along with recognizing garbage cans. I would not pay a dime extra for the visualizations, especially since they're quite inaccurate in many cases. So, many, cones, even when there aren't really any cones.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#357

Post by rootusrootus »

mark-r wrote: post #221
netfl0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These seem like legitimate but insignificant issues. As long as it is functionally sound, I don't think minor cosmetic issues will materially impact public opinion. The general public is unaware of body panel alignment as a concept.

That's what Detroit car companies said when Japanese car quality started taking off. The worst fit and finish I ever saw was my sister's 1980 Dodge Aspen.

Agreed. There is a reason that the Camry has been the best selling car in the US just about every single year since 1997. Boring reliability is very attractive to a lot of consumers. Enthusiasts will put up with Tesla quality in order to have the technology, but appliance car buyers are much less willing to accept that.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#358

Post by rootusrootus »

JPKab wrote: post #347
KaiserPro wrote: post #48

This is grand, apart from the build quality of the mechanics is ~10 years behind. Go to a tesla showroom, Look at the doors of the model three. Note that they don't line up. Look at the paint job, notice that there are bumps and chips, especailly on the edges of the doors. This is on a _demo_ car, stuck in a showroom. these should be perfect. Even a budget Kia has better build quality than this. Its not the isolated…

I'm not a Tesla owner. In fact, I find the company's hype driven marketing annoying. That being said, your info is out of date. The fit and finish isn't an issue anymore.

People still have problems. I hang out on r/teslamotors periodically, and I own a recently built Model 3. They have gotten better, but some people have significant issues to this day.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#359

Post by rootusrootus »

abc_lisper wrote: post #334
KaiserPro wrote: post #48

This is grand, apart from the build quality of the mechanics is ~10 years behind. Go to a tesla showroom, Look at the doors of the model three. Note that they don't line up. Look at the paint job, notice that there are bumps and chips, especailly on the edges of the doors. This is on a _demo_ car, stuck in a showroom. these should be perfect. Even a budget Kia has better build quality than this. Its not the isolated…

I was skeptical of Tesla, I didn't buy it when all my friends got it. The car seemed bland inside, devoid of any fashion/art/decor etc. The panel gaps .. ughh.. I test drove it 3 times. Hated it the first time in 2018. Late 2019, I used auto-pilot on 880 and 101. I was sold. There isn't a car available now that can drive on Autopilot with that confidence. I don't let it drive on auto over 30mph, and under it is where…

I live in a rainy area of the country. Periodically my car annoys me to the point of cursing, because the auto wipers are extremely stupid. And because there is only one non-touch/voice control for them, you're kinda stuck.

I also wish it would not refuse to unlock about 10% of the time. I may just get the fob.

Re: Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

#360

Post by rootusrootus »

rblatz wrote: post #240
codingmess wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 10 years ago, normal cars had doors that line up, and proper paint jobs.

Turns out that the average consumer of $40k+ EVs doesn’t give a shit about minor cosmetic issues if the rest of the car is years ahead of the competition. Maybe there is a lesson in there about always questioning priorities to ensure they are inline with the market.

There are other good EVs, and more in the pipeline. I think it would be more accurate to say that Tesla fans don't care much about minor cosmetic issues, because ... they're fans. This makes sense.
Post reply on HN