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Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#151

Post by loeg »

chki wrote: post #140
entangledqubit wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't make money this way but you can still argue that money that would have gone to taxes has now been redirected by an individual to a cause they solely decided is worthwhile.

But actually the state (society) decides which donations are tax deductible.

Well, elected officials decided that very early in the US's history of personal income tax. It's not like we have direct democracy and 2020 society has voted to approve this policy. We didn't have a federal income tax before 1913, and the government added the charitable deduction during the 1917 WWI revenue act, which also raised the personal income tax rates.

As far as I know it's simply never been touched since 1917.

Some folks just object to that policy.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#152

Post by toomuchtodo »

codekilla wrote: post #120
toomuchtodo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would find economic ways to disable these companies from operating. You mustn’t buy a whole company to do this. Maybe you buy a key piece of real estate they need and tie them up in court for years. Maybe you find key employees and hire them away and pay them to garden at the Spheres in Seattle. Maybe you convince a port to no longer allow the transfer of coal through there using economic coercion or donations to…

Do you think there is any appetite for funding these types of alternative ‘campaigns’. I’ve also thought a bit about this.

I get mixed reactions from potential wealthy benefactors when I discuss these ideas. Some definitely shun them and would rather play a clean ballgame, but I have had exactly two who have asked who to make the check out to.

In front of the right audience, there is an appetite.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#153

Post by matttb »

rapind wrote: post #94
s1artibartfast wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others said, why should it matter? I would be happy even if he got an 100% tax credit. what percent of tax revenue would have gone to climate change vs bombing some civilians in Afghanistan.

We shouldn't care because it's better that a billionaire chooses where that money goes instead of a democratically elected government? I'm not poking fun either. That's really what you seem to be saying. Does this still work if he puts this money towards a cause you're not keen of?

> Does this still work if he puts this money towards a cause you're not keen of?

This also applies in reverse. Here's an interesting article on some of this stuff if you're looking for another opinion - specifically #4 and on: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billio...

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#154

Post by [deleted] »

smallgovt wrote: post #133
humbledrone wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently see the "they're just doing this for the tax breaks" sentiment for these kinds of donations (especially when the donor is a corporation or hyper-wealthy individual) but I don't understand the reasoning. From what I understand of tax deductions, a donation of $X basically means that the donor can skip paying taxes on $X of income. This results in a savings of tax% * $X, which is always The tax deduction a…

I think ultimately this cynicism is born out of envy/jealousy for the good will that such a donation engenders. As you've pointed out, any logical analysis would conclude that, even in the most extreme cases, there's still a sizable positive benefit to society. People have a problem with "undeserved" good will as if good will is some scarce resource that's limited in supply. I think the reality is they're envious.

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#155

Post by maest »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #118
monadic2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call relying on consensual handouts from rich people a win for society.

Maybe governments are good sometimes, but sometimes individuals unilaterally deciding something is a problem can be good too. We can have it both ways, and we currently do.

> sometimes individuals unilaterally deciding something is a problem can be good too

This view is mostly true if you agree with that thing being a problem. What if the billionaire unilaterally decides to spend 10B to combat the pro-choice/pro-life movement (whichere you agree with)?

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#156

Post by oh_sigh »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #78
inerte wrote: post #20

After reading Winners Take All my level of cynicism is through the roof with headlines like this. $10b of his own personal fortune? That won't results in tax breaks / deduction because can be considered a donation? Or does that include money Amazon-the-company is spending on "climate change" efforts, such as buying electric delivery trucks instead of gas ones? Investments in "green datacenters"? Is any of this new in…

As others said, why should it matter? I would be happy even if he got an 100% tax credit. what percent of tax revenue would have gone to climate change vs bombing some civilians in Afghanistan.

What percentage of tax revenue do you think goes to bombing civilians in Afghanistan?

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#157

Post by adventured »

DennisP wrote: post #109
cswiercz wrote: post #83

Related: “Against Against Billionaire Philanthropy” ( https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billio... )

Based on that article, Bezos just pledged more money to fight climate change than the U.S. government has spent on it in the past 25 years.

How do you get to that figure? As one example the US Government spends billions of dollars per year subsidizing renewable energy, ie fighting climate change. $6.7 billion in 2016 alone. I'm not arguing that's an appropriate sum, however your 25 year premise is drastically wrong.

Since 2010, I'd bet the US Government has spent in the neighborhood of $60-$100 billion on renewable energy subsidies. The EIA reports that for 2010 and 2013 the figures were a combined $30 billion.

Then throw in nuclear energy subsidies over the last 25 years, which is comparable to the Bezos figure by itself.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#159

Post by inerte »

loeg wrote: post #141
humbledrone wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently see the "they're just doing this for the tax breaks" sentiment for these kinds of donations (especially when the donor is a corporation or hyper-wealthy individual) but I don't understand the reasoning. From what I understand of tax deductions, a donation of $X basically means that the donor can skip paying taxes on $X of income. This results in a savings of tax% * $X, which is always The tax deduction a…

Personal income tax deductions are additionally capped at 50% of income (and maybe 30% for unearned income? I forget the specifics). So if Bezos' income is $1/year, basically none of this would be deductible if it came from his personal fortune. That said, I think GP is expressing skepticism that the total $10B figure comes from Bezos' personal fortune rather than being a spending plan for AMZN's business. The articl…

> That said, I think GP is expressing skepticism that the total $10B figure comes from Bezos' personal fortune rather than being a spending plan for AMZN's business. The article doesn't exactly make this clear.

Yep, more along these lines. Lots of people are latching on the "tax break" but I thought I made a larger point about where the $10b figure is coming from. That's part of my cynicism: Bezos gets to write a great headlines with big rounding number like $10b, but I wonder what kind of creative accounting will be applied here.

Re: Jeff Bezos Commits $10B to Address Climate Change

#160

Post by loeg »

legitster wrote: post #73
legitster wrote: post #38

$10b is an insane initial endowment. That's about a quarter of what the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have after 20 years. It would be nice to have more details about the goals or objectives.

I also would push back on the idea that this is a "goodwill move". He dumped $2b in homelessness issues and it did nothing to move the needle on his likability. If anything it seemed to give him a lot of bad press and coverage. It seems more likely that he is either a) thinking about his long term legacy (a la Bill Gates), or b) he may (gasp) actually care about this issue.

Amazon seems to be pursuing the green agendas they set out last year, so I think it's plausible he really cares about this issue.
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