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What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

junglecoder.com

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Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#21
post #14

As someone, whose side project[1] graduated into a full-time company, I agree with a lot of stuff in this post - > Lesson 0: Programming in a void is worthless 100% true. If you are trying to learn a language without a goal, you'll probably never graduate from tutorials. Imposing your own requirements/boundaries, just makes the learning part more engrossing and you'll make connections which you won't otherwise. Itera…

There is typo on your site:

saved serches -> saved searches

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#22

For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured. In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were alway…

Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer? I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#23

Side projects are great. Not just for learning technology, but also for playing around with technology you already know. It can be fun to built something without the 'overhead' of Sprints, standups, team meetings, design documents,.. :)

I love it how when a new situation comes up at work that I have encountered in my side projects, I can come up with some approaches, strengths and weaknesses pretty fast. It makes me look like I'm a lot more knowledgeable than I am.

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#24

What my years of side projects have taught me: * At work its better to hurry than get anything done. Regardless of language if you work for a company of greater than 1000 people there is a certain nearly identical way of doing things. This way of doing things is based upon a combination user platform, quantity of developers on the market with a particular skill, and a need to pretend to be busy even when you don't ac…

> The corporate world doesn't work like this. Everybody is paid a salary exchange for 45 hours of your life each week and your assignments are generally governed by an agile sprint cycle, so there is absolutely no motivation to be productive. I’ve consulted in a lot of large enterprises, and this is really untrue. If you’re happy just stagnating and some level that you’ve decided is good enough, you can get away with…

You're describing the opposite extreme. Most people are aware that they need to strike a balance: be aware of your own marketability versus just doing enough but not burning themselves up.

Being more or less productive is defined by - in no particular order - your salary, workplace culture (a due sense of agency and feeling respected,...), your own intrinsic motivation to choose a particular career path and personal circumstances that keep one at a job (usually household debt in any way shape or form).

Contrast that with the fact that digital tech today is an industry in which a large part of your toolbox and knowledge is perceived as "obsolete" within a short time (1 or 2 years). The net result is that most people burn themselves out in a race they can't hope to ever finish.

So the notion that "you must keep up at all costs" is unsustainable to put it mildly.

> They’ll probably get small raises every year, and perhaps the occasional promotion based on years served. But that’s really as good as it gets for them.

And that's totally valid. Why do people need to forcefully "climb the ladder" through promotions? A promotion isn't just a reward, it's often a serious career change that comes with serious challenges.

If someone wants to move vertically in a particular role throughout their career - say, as a developer - then that's totally fine too.

If someone isn't interested in spending time at home working on OSS projects - even when their employer provides incentives - then that's fine as well.

> They’re usually very friendly to work with, but they’ll have skills that are 10-20 years out of date, and mediocre at that. Eventually even the slow moving large organisations start to outpace their own personal development, and they get left looking for jobs that don’t really exist anymore.

That's a bias. Not every large organisation operates like a silicon valley style start up. Not every organisation has "building cutting-edge software" as a primary mission.

Banks, airlines, public institutions,... don't operate on short timescales (5 or 10 years), they operate on long timescales (20 to 50 years out). They aren't interested in shiny tech, they are interested in robust & proven solutions that last a very long time.

A large chunk of software engineering is boring and slow moving for a good reason: because breaking things comes with serious real world consequences.

Case in point: there's still demand for COBOL and Perl programmers. You can perfectly build a career in as an expert in those areas.

> I worked with a guy a few years ago, and all he’d ever really done was Swing projects. He added me on LinkedIn a few months ago, he’s been working at a cinema for the past two years, trying to find a new Swing project to work on.

Anecdotal.

If he works at a cinema, that might be because he can't simply move to another area with more swing projects (family or other concerns), or because he genuinely got tired and wanted something else, or because he just doesn't know how to promote himself properly - it's not his strong suit - and he turned to LinkedIn just recently.

Unless this is a close friend, you do not know half of this person's life and their decisions. Assuming x because y, well, that's just jumping to conclusions, isn't it then?

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#25

For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured. In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were alway…

Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer? I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?

I do - assuming there’s actually something to show off then I put it up. I have static websites only half full of content, repositories with just an assortment of scripts and configs, libraries that are just enough to meet the use case, etc

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#26

For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured. In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were alway…

Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer? I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?

> unfinished projects

Depends on the definition of "unfinished" - it's good to create something that's workable to some state (or at least demo something). If you're using a repo of unrunnable code as an example of your skills, you probably need to have a robust explanation of what needs to be done to get it working.

However, I doubt lots of examples of half-complete projects will reflect too well, and might be more of a hindrance ("doesn't follow through, constantly jumping from thing to thing...") than a benefit. Pick one you're proud of and run with it, even if it's just a "this is the state, this is what I'd do to get it running...".

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#27
Very true. I followed the same path, and a side project was always the way to learn something new. Sometimes those side projects become full on ventures as well. Added bonus.

I also very well remember my joy after I "invented" the AMQ, only to later find out about ActiveMQ, RabbitMQ etc. (which didn't diminish that "proud" feeling)

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#28

For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured. In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were alway…

Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer? I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?

YMMV, but when I interview as an employer is ask a candidate to talk me through a project they really enjoyed. It can be work-based or a side-project, doesn't matter as long as it's something they really enjoyed. We then use that to explore what it was that excited them, the technology decisions they made, etc.[1]

If your answer was an unfinished project, I'd want to know why they were unfinished. Did you give up on them because of external pressures, you had a better idea, or because you often struggle to finish things you've started?

That last one is not alway a pejorative statement, BTW. Some people are great at figuring out the big stuff and then need others to help them execute on the detail (think about architects or producers). Others however, just give up at the first obstacle they meet, and if I get that impression from a candidate I'd want to dig into it a bit as it's possibly a yellow flag.

My advice then: think carefully about what they are likely to ask you about those unfinished projects, and what your answers are likely to be, before you offer them up.

[1] The most interesting answer to this question I've had was "an OpenGL renderer for the X Window System written in Lisp". My follow-up questions were many...

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#29

For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured. In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were alway…

Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer? I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?

> unfinished projects

Just redefine the scope, or the success criteria!

If the project's purpose was to learn or experiment with X, it doesn't matter that it's not a polished product, it still served its purpose and as such can be considered done.

Re: What eight years of side projects have taught me (2019)

#30
post #23

Side projects are great. Not just for learning technology, but also for playing around with technology you already know. It can be fun to built something without the 'overhead' of Sprints, standups, team meetings, design documents,.. :)

I love it how when a new situation comes up at work that I have encountered in my side projects, I can come up with some approaches, strengths and weaknesses pretty fast. It makes me look like I'm a lot more knowledgeable than I am.

Well but actually you are that knowledgeable - you just gained the knowledge through experience outside of work.

But you're right, it happened to me a few times as well and people assume you "just know". :P

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